Plantable trees

[jcd]

For a while i have been thinking that the game lacks this feature and so i’d like to add it.

This, though can be pretty complicated as there are many ways to “plant” or make a tree.
So, after some research i’d like to discuss about how this should best be done, system-wise. (will get to code-wise later on)
Keep in mind that plant propagation is not my field of knowledge, so i might be wrong at times, as google is providing most of my info.

My thoughts:

1. Trees from seeds: The well known idea of planting the seeds obtained from the fruit.
   There in no 100% chance to get a tree that will bear the exact same fruit as the one it was taken from, and there is no 100% chance to bear fruit at all. It all depends on fruit varieties and pollination.

a) Apples and pears need cross-pollination for their seeds to produce fruit-bearing trees.
b) Almondlike seeds (cherries, apricots, plums, peaches) have a much better chance to produce a tree that will be fruitful and there are self-pollinating and pathenocarpic varieties of some of these.
c) Growing time is 8-10 years for apples&pears. 3-5 years for peaches, plums, apricots, cherries.
d) Planting is done in spring.

conclusion: Pretty problematic, unless you use the resulting trees as rootstock for grafting.

2. Grafting: Tissues from one plant are inserted into those of another so that the two sets of vascular tissues may join together.
   a) Via grafting, we can use the rootstock of another tree, and then graft the variety you want upon it, with nearly 100% chance to get the preferred variety, as long as the grafting is successfull.
   For it, you’d need a compatible tree (sure you can use grafting to make a fruitless peach tree into a fruitful apricot tree, but you cannot succeed on making an oak tree bear apricots)
   Apples are semi-compatible with pears, pears are compatible with quinces (not in game atm), and plums, pears, apricots, cherries are compatible with each other.
   b) It takes about a month for this procedure.
   c) Done best during springtime, you have to prune everything over the grafting position in order for the graft to catch, and so the tree will not be able to bear fruit immidiately, as it will have to grow new branches after the grafting position.

conclusion: With a suitable rootstock, this method is quite good. Only problem is obtaining the rootstock and using it or replanting it.

3. Tree cuttings: A piece of the stem or root of the source plant is placed in a suitable medium such as moist soil, potting mix, coir or rock wool. The cutting produces new roots, stems, or both, and thus becomes a new plant independent of the parent.

a) These have a good chance to succeed with apples and pears, but not that good with the rest.
b) It takes three to four weeks for the cutting to root.
c) Again, done best during the spring.

Keeping all of this in mind i propose:

1. Adding quince trees.
2. Make apple, pear, apricot, peach, cherries, plums, quinces give 1-2 seeds when eaten.
3. Allow planting of these in the spring, if temperature is above 5 oC. Success depends on survival skill
4. Resulting trees will be considered “seedlings” for 2 years and “young” for another 2. From the 5th year onwards they mature and bear fruit.
5. Replanting of seedlings will be possible.
6. The resulting trees will be of the “wild” variety (eg. wild apple tree, wild peach tree…)
   As such, they will have a much smaller chance to produce fruit that the varieties in our orchards.
7. At least 50% of fruit trees encountered in the woods will be of the wild variety.
8. We can use grafting techniques to convert a fruit tree from the wild variety into the ‘good’ one. The procedure is allowed in spring, and success depends on survival skill. Open to debate if the tree will bear fruit during the first year after grafting. Seedlings and young trees will not bear fruit until they mature.
9. Allow “cuttings” technique for creating seedlings. These will be considered 1 yr old, and will always be of the “good” variety (not wild one). Success of cuttings will depend on survival skill. Apple and pear trees will be easier than the rest with this method.
10. Allow planting of regular trees (not fruit-bearing ones) via cuttings.
11. Add seeds and seedlings into the home gardening building. Seedlings will die after 1-2 seasons. Both these seeds and seedlings will always produce the “good” variety of the tree.
12. Add an orchard building to coplement the farm. Orchards will have a good number of fruit trees planted.

PS. I do realise this is a bit too in-depth for the average player to want to grasp, so it might not be mergeable. Would like to hear of simpler realistic systems that could make it if this won’t.
PS2. Living in an apple orchard during the apocalypse might be fun

[i2amroy]

I could certainly see planting trees, but it’s not exactly a high priority when the majority of players aren’t going to be going playing on the same world anywhere near long enough to start to harvest trees when it takes (rightfully) 3-4 years for even the quickest growing to produce fruit.

That said it’s definitely something I’d like to see going in as we get to the point where we can have longer term games with reasons for players to stick around that long.

[Snaaty]

Wow, you certainly put much thought into that, that’s great!

Some advanced tree-planting certainly would be nice. The amount of time that takes is a really limiting factor, however, especially as the results you get are (as long as you don’t count the satisfaction for creating your own orchard) not very appealing.

Perhaps, we could think of some way that our future selves have managed to genetically manipulate trees in order to change some characteristics, such as growing time, amounts of fruit, etc.
Or even trees that bear “magic” fruits that give a permanent bonus to the player.
Those things would have to be supported by (pseudo-)science and lore, and the devices neccessary to create such wonderful plants should probably be only available rarely (special labs for genetically maipulating plants?).

Slightly off topic: Generally, we need more genetically changed plants and stuff, imho. If you consider a large part of todays american crops are GMOs, who knows what will happen in the future?

[KA101]

I’d thought of it as a simplified system: plant seedling, get young fruit tree, wait a year, get fruit tree (harvestable in its season). Likewise young trees could be planted and grown. (Pine trees, too!)

[jcd]

so, the barring factor is the time it takes for trees to grow…

ok, this can be simplified with a 1-2 yr grow time.

This would mean for a core system:

1. You can plant seeds (or cuttings from a tree) to obtain a seedling.
2. Seedlings take a year to grow into young trees.
3. Young trees take a year to grow into mature trees.
4. Young trees and seedlings can be replanted in another place.
5. If you go the seeds method, you will get the “wild” variety unless you do grafting.

problem: still slightly complicated, also the fact that seeds from anything will cause a spam of more inventory items, and that some trees do not give seeds.

so here is a second take on it: remove the seeds & grafting system, allow only cuttings.
Core system v2:

1. You can take cuttings from any tree with a knife + survival skill.
2. Planting these will create a seedling, replantable. You can plant or replant seedlings only during the spring. Success is survival based.
   Seedlings grow into young trees in a year’s time.
3. Young trees are still replantable, at any season barring winter, but its harder to take them off the ground and you got to replant them in pits, not tilled soil.
   Young trees mature in a year.

This last system does away with the “wild” variety idea, and makes it all much simpler, while staying close enough to reality.
I’m up to tackling it code-wise if you like it.

[i2amroy]

I’m not saying it’s a barring factor, (and in fact I’d rather prefer to have realistic growth times). I’m just saying that because of that fact it’s kinda a low priority for me. I know that it’s one my list and is definitely something I’d like to see merged eventually (and would be willing to vote towards merging if someone came up with a PR). But I’ve got some more pressing things on my plate at the moment.

[jcd]

no probs about it. i reckon i can do it myself.

what i would like to do here is a debate about the best way to implement plantable trees without turning cata into a farming simulator, but staying close to RL.

i think i got most of the input i need, so i will go ahead and scrounge up something during the next week.
after that, we can adjust the PR for balance before merging it.

[Pthalocy]

As the seasoned players continue to last longer, the beginnings of long-term projects like tree growing seem a very nice touch.

As interesting as lategame orchard-management might be for a self-imposed goal, I’ll be looking forward to working planted trees into part of my home base’s construction. Decorative, functional, and protective!

[KA101]

[quote=“jcd, post:7, topic:7697”]no probs about it. i reckon i can do it myself.

what i would like to do here is a debate about the best way to implement plantable trees without turning cata into a farming simulator, but staying close to RL.

i think i got most of the input i need, so i will go ahead and scrounge up something during the next week.
after that, we can adjust the PR for balance before merging it.[/quote]

Seedlings ought to be available in garden stores. Apart from that and sorting out the timing, sure.