Piercing Dmg overpowered?

Game Talk The Bunker
41

lol Bladerock editing a quote to say your statement.

Cataclysm is single player and there is no balance issue about it if you get that powerful in skills for that character being that old and it is deserved.

If you have nothing constructive to say then don’t post here and start quoting people and editing it.

@gtaguy there is a reason why melee<Guns and asking for gun dmg nerfed as many say are limited resources not a good direction either. Perhaps your saying perception should be nerfed as it allows too easy head-shotting at point-blank range.

Did you read Kevin’s Post? (The Crit mechanics itself is buggy and armor doesn’t reduce crit dmg)

42

It only causes a lot of arguing because it ends up being the guy who watches too many movies, vs the guy who shot a gun a few times vs the guy who owns five handguns, three rifles, five shotguns and has been in the military and hunts as a hobby. But, the guy who watches movies and the guy who shot a gun twice won’t listen to the one guy who actually knows what he’s saying because movies are 100% true and holding a gun twice makes you an expert.

…

43

It only causes a lot of arguing because it ends up being the guy who watches too many movies, vs the guy who shot a gun a few times vs the guy who owns five handguns, three rifles, five shotguns and has been in the military and hunts as a hobby. But, the guy who watches movies and the guy who shot a gun twice won’t listen to the one guy who actually knows what he’s saying because movies are 100% true and holding a gun twice makes you an expert.

and your supposed to be the guy who owns five handguns, three rifles, five shotguns and has been in the military and hunts as a hobby? lol

44

No, i am the guy who watches too many movies.

45

I own an entire 700lb safe full of guns, and hunt regularly.

My point is that shooting a human causes them to die from blood loss/organ damage, not brute force. Headshotting a zombie would be like shooting flies with a NERF gun, incredibly difficult to the point that you would’ve killed them more effectively by bashing them with the thing.

On the armor-melee deal: m1 Abraham tanks have a slanted armor design of a super composite made of a fuckload of rare materials. If you punch a robot it would most likely fall over if you punch it with force, and that would be what damages it. Not directly the blow but the damage from the force of blows. This is how when a tank rolls over an anti-tank mine it damages the tracks and causes the tank to be unserviceable. Same with robots and melee.

So I damage this copbot a few times and something breaks on it, the damage from that weakens the robot and causes my punches to do further damage. Until finally the robot is unable to continue battling.

Now I agree that a wooden stick can’t pierce steel plating, but not all of the robot can be steel plating. The optic sensors (glass), joints (susceptible metal bits), and weapons (easily broken attachment) could easily be broken by someone with a wooden spear. Such places would be an access point for causing further damage by rattling the thing inside or jerking it and breaking that part completely.

Oh but it can be all 2 in thick steel plating! Well then any gun under a .50 cal wouldn’t do jack shit either dumbass.

46

Generally it actually turns into an argument between people who knows a lot about guns but don’t understand the concept of counterplay, agency, or abstraction, and people who want the game to be fun and enjoyable but don’t actually know why they find things fun or what makes them enjoyable. And everyone involved turns out to be an idiot and the conversation goes nowhere.

These conversations are always stupid. I’m open to there someday being an exception, but from what has been said so far I doubt this attempt is going to be it.

47

Hey, hey, hey. Ahma smrat ginius.

48

[quote=“gtaguy, post:45, topic:1786”]I own an entire 700lb safe full of guns, and hunt regularly.

My point is that shooting a human causes them to die from blood loss/organ damage, not brute force. Headshotting a zombie would be like shooting flies with a NERF gun, incredibly difficult to the point that you would’ve killed them more effectively by bashing them with the thing.

On the armor-melee deal: m1 Abraham tanks have a slanted armor design of a super composite made of a fuckload of rare materials. If you punch a robot it would most likely fall over if you punch it with force, and that would be what damages it. Not directly the blow but the damage from the force of blows. This is how when a tank rolls over an anti-tank mine it damages the tracks and causes the tank to be unserviceable. Same with robots and melee.

So I damage this copbot a few times and something breaks on it, the damage from that weakens the robot and causes my punches to do further damage. Until finally the robot is unable to continue battling.

Now I agree that a wooden stick can’t pierce steel plating, but not all of the robot can be steel plating. The optic sensors (glass), joints (susceptible metal bits), and weapons (easily broken attachment) could easily be broken by someone with a wooden spear. Such places would be an access point for causing further damage by rattling the thing inside or jerking it and breaking that part completely.

Oh but it can be all 2 in thick steel plating! Well then any gun under a .50 cal wouldn’t do jack shit either dumbass.[/quote]

Comparing a tank to modern LARGE robots being the same to melee is just plain wrong, there are weak some points yeah but armor would have high coverage giving them effective protection thus requiring you to be SKILLED to actually find/notice said weak points to successfully attack said weak-point.

Again your demoting guns, zombies here aren’t those headshot only zombies that die from brain dmg they are goo animated zombies that drops dead when it receives enough dmg and gets back up when it repairs such dmg unless completely destroyed.

49

He’s not demoting guns, you are overglorifying them.

50

Well, if you pick up a .38 and fire it at a metal crate/dumpster/survivalist shelter it’d ricochet off it, leaving a bump; after, say, eight to ten shots to the same spot, the dented spot would be pierced. On the other hand, if you had a heavy javelin and knew how to handle it, you’d need only a couple of attempts to bust a hole in that one. It’s really a matter of quality vs. quantity; you want to burst that glock and mess up with the bots’ movement and reaction mechanics damaging some electronics in the progress, or you want to make a big, heavy tool to f**k up anything that stands before you. If you had a workbench and skills to make a proper one, a good javelin could easily push through a van sideways, leaving two holes; but it’s the one with a deadly, light tip, a weigh just behind and also a steel rod inside.
I’m really not into that “if pebbles could bring down skyscrapers” discussion and see no point in overthinking whether a tree branch can bash a 2-ton robot, but I acknowledged the fact that heavy crossbows ended the heavy-armored medieval era. Circuitry and power are just a small detail in the picture, really.

51

[quote=“Stevensonz, post:48, topic:1786”][quote=“gtaguy, post:45, topic:1786”]I own an entire 700lb safe full of guns, and hunt regularly.

My point is that shooting a human causes them to die from blood loss/organ damage, not brute force. Headshotting a zombie would be like shooting flies with a NERF gun, incredibly difficult to the point that you would’ve killed them more effectively by bashing them with the thing.

On the armor-melee deal: m1 Abraham tanks have a slanted armor design of a super composite made of a fuckload of rare materials. If you punch a robot it would most likely fall over if you punch it with force, and that would be what damages it. Not directly the blow but the damage from the force of blows. This is how when a tank rolls over an anti-tank mine it damages the tracks and causes the tank to be unserviceable. Same with robots and melee.

So I damage this copbot a few times and something breaks on it, the damage from that weakens the robot and causes my punches to do further damage. Until finally the robot is unable to continue battling.

Now I agree that a wooden stick can’t pierce steel plating, but not all of the robot can be steel plating. The optic sensors (glass), joints (susceptible metal bits), and weapons (easily broken attachment) could easily be broken by someone with a wooden spear. Such places would be an access point for causing further damage by rattling the thing inside or jerking it and breaking that part completely.

Oh but it can be all 2 in thick steel plating! Well then any gun under a .50 cal wouldn’t do jack shit either dumbass.[/quote]

Comparing a tank to modern LARGE robots being the same to melee is just plain wrong, there are weak some points yeah but armor would have high coverage giving them effective protection thus requiring you to be SKILLED to actually find/notice said weak points to successfully attack said weak-point.

Again your demoting guns, zombies here aren’t those headshot only zombies that die from brain dmg they are goo animated zombies that drops dead when it receives enough dmg and gets back up when it repairs such dmg unless completely destroyed.[/quote]

Just fucking no. Hitting a quarter with a homemade wooden spear at the end of its reach is so easy I could do it blindfolded. Plus such weak points would be obvious to anyone with a 2nd grade education. “Hurr durr glass r weakr dan steel armur” aiming for the eyes or joints of a robot, or even the welds or bends in the steel would be exceptionally easy and do a fair bit of damage.

Also, if the character is assumed to always attempt a headshot on zombies. So if it did no extra damage and caused the player to miss more then why do it? You have obvious logical fallacies and simply cannot see that melee can do a large amount of damage.

52

[quote=“Stevensonz, post:48, topic:1786”][quote=“gtaguy, post:45, topic:1786”]I own an entire 700lb safe full of guns, and hunt regularly.

My point is that shooting a human causes them to die from blood loss/organ damage, not brute force. Headshotting a zombie would be like shooting flies with a NERF gun, incredibly difficult to the point that you would’ve killed them more effectively by bashing them with the thing.

On the armor-melee deal: m1 Abraham tanks have a slanted armor design of a super composite made of a fuckload of rare materials. If you punch a robot it would most likely fall over if you punch it with force, and that would be what damages it. Not directly the blow but the damage from the force of blows. This is how when a tank rolls over an anti-tank mine it damages the tracks and causes the tank to be unserviceable. Same with robots and melee.

So I damage this copbot a few times and something breaks on it, the damage from that weakens the robot and causes my punches to do further damage. Until finally the robot is unable to continue battling.

Now I agree that a wooden stick can’t pierce steel plating, but not all of the robot can be steel plating. The optic sensors (glass), joints (susceptible metal bits), and weapons (easily broken attachment) could easily be broken by someone with a wooden spear. Such places would be an access point for causing further damage by rattling the thing inside or jerking it and breaking that part completely.

Oh but it can be all 2 in thick steel plating! Well then any gun under a .50 cal wouldn’t do jack shit either dumbass.[/quote]

Comparing a tank to modern LARGE robots being the same to melee is just plain wrong, there are weak some points yeah but armor would have high coverage giving them effective protection thus requiring you to be SKILLED to actually find/notice said weak points to successfully attack said weak-point.

Again your demoting guns, zombies here aren’t those headshot only zombies that die from brain dmg they are goo animated zombies that drops dead when it receives enough dmg and gets back up when it repairs such dmg unless completely destroyed.[/quote]

of course, maybe the goo needs to use the brain to control the person the same way you need to use a steering wheel to control a car…

53

[quote=“gtaguy, post:51, topic:1786”][quote=“Stevensonz, post:48, topic:1786”][quote=“gtaguy, post:45, topic:1786”]I own an entire 700lb safe full of guns, and hunt regularly.

My point is that shooting a human causes them to die from blood loss/organ damage, not brute force. Headshotting a zombie would be like shooting flies with a NERF gun, incredibly difficult to the point that you would’ve killed them more effectively by bashing them with the thing.

On the armor-melee deal: m1 Abraham tanks have a slanted armor design of a super composite made of a fuckload of rare materials. If you punch a robot it would most likely fall over if you punch it with force, and that would be what damages it. Not directly the blow but the damage from the force of blows. This is how when a tank rolls over an anti-tank mine it damages the tracks and causes the tank to be unserviceable. Same with robots and melee.

So I damage this copbot a few times and something breaks on it, the damage from that weakens the robot and causes my punches to do further damage. Until finally the robot is unable to continue battling.

Now I agree that a wooden stick can’t pierce steel plating, but not all of the robot can be steel plating. The optic sensors (glass), joints (susceptible metal bits), and weapons (easily broken attachment) could easily be broken by someone with a wooden spear. Such places would be an access point for causing further damage by rattling the thing inside or jerking it and breaking that part completely.

Oh but it can be all 2 in thick steel plating! Well then any gun under a .50 cal wouldn’t do jack shit either dumbass.[/quote]

Comparing a tank to modern LARGE robots being the same to melee is just plain wrong, there are weak some points yeah but armor would have high coverage giving them effective protection thus requiring you to be SKILLED to actually find/notice said weak points to successfully attack said weak-point.

Again your demoting guns, zombies here aren’t those headshot only zombies that die from brain dmg they are goo animated zombies that drops dead when it receives enough dmg and gets back up when it repairs such dmg unless completely destroyed.[/quote]

Just fucking no. Hitting a quarter with a homemade wooden spear at the end of its reach is so easy I could do it blindfolded. Plus such weak points would be obvious to anyone with a 2nd grade education. “Hurr durr glass r weakr dan steel armur” aiming for the eyes or joints of a robot, or even the welds or bends in the steel would be exceptionally easy and do a fair bit of damage.

Also, if the character is assumed to always attempt a headshot on zombies. So if it did no extra damage and caused the player to miss more then why do it? You have obvious logical fallacies and simply cannot see that melee can do a large amount of damage.[/quote]

Lol gtaguy hitting a quarter with a spear and blind folded anyone can do that given enough time since quarters can’t move. (But can you do that in a SINGLE precise hit? NO) If you just actually stop and think logically not every robot will be HUMAN size where it’s easy to hit those weak-spots look at the chicken walker robot try hitting it’s eyes that is way up high with your spear where that would be impossible unless you throw your spear to it or even attacking the joints that is way out of your reach of your spear.

Your the one that said guns are IMBA so why don’t we nerf perception to balance their hit rates huh and make critting with guns difficult so you don’t feel melee got balanced and cannot 1 hit everything at low skill levels.

@grisamentum special cases of goo involves zombie scientists that can set up manhacks or throw acid on you other than that well most re-animated ones are un-intelligent.

54

If we reduce the perception bonus to ranged weapons without giving it anything else, it becomes the most useless attribute ever. Heck, it is borderline useless to a non-ranged character already.

I’m pretty sure the game goes “HEADSHOT!” every couple of shots with a ranged weapon when fighting zombies. For all it’s worth, yes, your character is aiming for their heads. This, coupled with there being no headless zombies as of the last version i played implies that their heads do seem to be a critical spot.

Also, i propose we change the pointed stick to pointed pipe (and use a bludgeon to craft it instead of a cutting tool). Since the whole argument is “a stick can’t beat metal!!” I would declare it problem solved with that change.

Not that anyone who plays this game ever uses pointed sticks…

55

[quote=“Bladerock, post:54, topic:1786”]If we reduce the perception bonus to ranged weapons without giving it anything else, it becomes the most useless attribute ever. Heck, it is borderline useless to a non-ranged character already.

I’m pretty sure the game goes “HEADSHOT!” every couple of shots with a ranged weapon when fighting zombies. For all it’s worth, yes, your character is aiming for their heads. This, coupled with there being no headless zombies as of the last version i played implies that their heads do seem to be a critical spot.

Also, i propose we change the pointed stick to pointed pipe (and use a bludgeon to craft it instead of a cutting tool). Since the whole argument is “a stick can’t beat metal!!” I would declare it problem solved with that change.

Not that anyone who plays this game ever uses pointed sticks…[/quote]

every couple of shots? if you get high enough skill of about 3-4 with decent perception your shots become 100% headshot chance on pointblank range. (the critical chance needs some fixing with a set cap especially on longer ranges allowing 100% headshot even with horrible accuracy guns)

Also the whole point of pointed sticks up to javelin is to use it on Flesh targets not METAL but if you want you can make your own pointed pipe up to a metal pike and recipes for it.

56

Your right, quarters can’t move. Wooden can’t pierce steel.

But you are forgetting something

[size=24pt]Realism<Gameplay[/size]

Who is to say that a wooden spear can’t pierce metal if changing it would make the game unfun. You are a ranged character player no? Then why the fuck are you ATTACKING melee characters? It’s not like wood being able to pierce steel would affect you in any way whatsoever.

57

[quote=“gtaguy, post:56, topic:1786”]Your right, quarters can’t move. Wooden can’t pierce steel.

But you are forgetting something

[size=24pt]Realism<Gameplay[/size]

Who is to say that a wooden spear can’t pierce metal if changing it would make the game unfun. You are a ranged character player no? Then why the fuck are you ATTACKING melee characters? It’s not like wood being able to pierce steel would affect you in any way whatsoever.[/quote]

I use melee most of the time and only use guns/other types of weapons when I need to use it cause it feels stupid to kill a robot with said pointy stick. somethings need balancing hence in this case REALISM>GAMEPLAY ON ROBOTS (Only exception should you be able to do amazing things with melee is if your a skilled cyborg mutant ninja which the game allows)

Take a look at the sledge hammer you can’t use it to smash normal residential walls, why? Gameplay>Realism

58

Hey, well guess what?

Moderator action, removed rant. Chill out dude. -Kevin Granade

However you have not won the argument, wood can still break welds on metal. Thus damaging the robots.

59

@gtaguy you can only break the welds on the small robots not the larger ones because they would be resistant to normal wood with better design manufacture and rare components, unless you have something that’s big and sturdy with size and thickness equaling a damn log.

60

I’m onto this silly, defiant flame.
You can’t pull SHIT with a wooden mop on a full-steel-cooking oven. Name the game other than CataDDA that employs the counter-rule, please. Do you REALLY think it’s a stone hammer that brings down a heavy-valved locker or a big fridge whilst doing nothing but swinging? A thrown sharpened stone, tied to a pole, can’t pull anything on a well-veawed carpet, or two, or a folded one, it’s a fact. Keep it real, people - it’s not a love song, it’s survival play.