Nutritional balancing

just pooping by to say that if somebody is willing to give me a good list of vitaman effects, bonuses and maluses, id be up for testing it out.

as in, howdo scurvy or whatdo calcium deficiency. gotta work it out in gameplay terms

what happened to all the cattle anyway? shouldn’t there be cows on farms and mass animal factories with some surviving animals?
and i think insect meat contains calcium. maybe have harvestable regular size anthills and make insect meat a separate item.

the problem with balancing some generic food like “wild vegetables” is that when your body needs a vitamin you’ll automatically eat more of those plants that provide it so it would have to be dynamically adjusted :-/
there is also some food that lets you make better use of certain kinds of vitamin in other food, so the whole system should just be more relaxed to compensate for our inability to simulate the efficiency brought about by millions of years of evolution.

though all of this has been said before, but it appears nobody can be arsed to implement it?


Cows have a ridiculously low spawn frequency and an utterly ridiculous cost.

So they rarely get picked to spawn and even lessso can be ‘afforded’ by the monster placer.

But its not like you can milk them and pasteurize the product anyway.

Feel free to be the one to PR it.

Ideas are generally implemented based on their quality and impact: if it’s really good and really important, it’s implemented immediately. If either, it is implemented soon. If it’s just kinda OK and fixes something minor, whining (“why is it not done yet?”) won’t help. Complexity counts as low quality here.
Actually expanding on the idea can help, though. Or can kill it, if it turns out to be shit or to require more effort than it is worth.

Feel free to be the one to PR it.
lol that would obviously be no problem in a project where decisions are made based on logic but we saw in the MiningMod PR how cata is controlled by some religious fanatic who makes up random excuses and when those excuses don't work anymore he just stops responding. i'm sure if he said which ones of the suggested rebalance changes he would merge it would be a matter of hours or days until someone made such a PR. or if at least he told us what his religion is so we can look up what kind of changes contradict it.

I don’t think most calcium deficiency kicks in until you are absurdly old, especially if you had years pre-cataclysm being an American and eating cereal like it is your job.

I can’t find anything that says not eating calcium does anything other than take it from your bones, which would only lead to osteoporosis later in life. Maybe year 15 you need to start worrying that you didn’t take enough calcium, but it is not like your body is going to remind you of it until then.

Scurvy takes a month to start to take effect, and happens if you have little to no vitamin C. You only need a minimum daily intake of 10 mg. Early warning signs or scurvy are that your hair gets curly, as in your arm hair and leg hair goes corkscrew. That could be a neat early warning sign.

This is the ONLY vitamin deficiency that I can find anything on that would take effect in the timeframe we are talking about. Everything else takes at least three years to take effect. Vitamin A and Iron, we store in our liver and have enough for years and years. Vitamin B deficiency takes about 7 years, despite it being water soluble.

User, humans do not have vitamin specific appetites. We have a sodium appetite, but we do not track sodium.

You most certainly can aquire learned appetites and tastes.

Okay, but many nutrients do not have a specific taste. And you don’t learn appetites for nutrients living in America in the 21st century.

fair nuff.

but under conditions normally encountered in cdda you can. And its not the taste of the nutrients you aquire for, its the taste of the food that has the nutrients.

fish eyes man. fisheyes

What are your sources? I can not find a single scientific article that says this we have any learned appetite other than protein and sodium.

When Britain took over Southeast Asia and put its population in factories, the factories who served white rice’s workers developed Baribari, but the factories who served brown rice’s workers did not. The worker’s bodies did not tell them they should be eating brown rice, or they would have. Brown rice was less processed and less expensive.

Why didn’t pirates stop by Spain and pick up some oranges because that would have really hit the spot? Why didn’t people who had pellagra’s bodies tell them to eat bread or tuna or whatever?

Why did it take centuries to discover the causes of these diseases? If everyone you saw with the disease said, “I feel like crap, Doc, but man, could I go for some limes.” it wouldn’t have been a thing.

Nothing makes me hungrier then the smell of charred zombie.

Chezzo are you fucking trolling?
Of course all animals instinctively know what kind of food they need to alleviate their deficiencies.

Holy shit did it ever occur to you that those factory slaves did not have the money to buy brown rice?
Did it ever occur to you that on a ship without minifridge you CAN’T CARRY FRUIT???
Did it ever occur to you that for this reason until recently in history you just couldn’t get limes most of the time in most of the places?

If everyone you saw with the disease said
Everyone I saw? I don't know what kind of fucking propaganda the pharma industry tells murricans to buy their shitty multivitamins but [url=]check out this post and thread[/url].

Alright, reading my own response it’s getting clear to me that i was just trolled and that you can’t be serious. Nice one. Enjoy it before the Danish take over :wink:

Brown rice was less expensive. It is processed less. They made lime juice syrups to survive the journey and the seasons. Remember, Britain had a world wide empire when scurvy was a thing. If they had known how to cure it they would have.

Humans do not have specific appetite, User.

“Numerous studies have shown food cravings have nothing to do with nutrient levels within your body.”

That link you put up to someone else on the forums is wrong and right. It is wrong that people didn’t get scurvy on land, the Ancient Egyptians are the first to report “land scurvy” and the Crusaders also got it. He is right that by simply eating one fruit or vegetable a week will give you everything you need and it is ridiculous that we are tracking vitamins.

Your retarded clickbait site does not link to a single source and it exclusively talks about craving for sweet and fast food which doesn’t count as it uses sugar and chemicals to hack our brains.
Craving for nutritious food is fundamentally different, of course. As people pointed out in the comments as well.
Obviously there is a lack of studies on the subject because people generally don’t lack vitamins but there is some for calcium:

indirect evidence supports the idea that patients on kidney dialysis who develop hypocalcemia prefer cheese with greater amounts of calcium added.[11]

You can’t seriously think that we did NOT develop such a trait during billions of years of evolution?
If you eat the same food every day you get sick of it and if you don’t eat fruit or vegetables for months you start craving them really badly. This isn’t exactly rocket science.

Oh and if you had actually read your article you’d know that

The more likely cause of this craving is thought to be “feel-good” neurotransmitters in the brain, like serotonin, that are released after eating sweets and carbohydrates.
The body or brain knows sugar makes it happy so it craves sugary food when it is unhappy. It doesn't have to consult wikipedia or a doctor to figure out what food provides the molecules it 'needs'.

Idk if you are trolling or not, i met some really stupid people in recent years who actually fall for such bs so in case you are serious: please turn off faux news and reddit and read a book or something.

I think I now see who the troll is here.

From Web MD:

“One popular myth is that people crave certain foods to fill a nutritional deficiency.”

“The naive view has always been that cravings represent wisdom of the body,” says Marcia Pelchat, PhD, a food researcher at the Monell Chemical Senses Center in Philadelphia."


“One school of thought is that people crave certain foods because they have a nutritional deficiency; however, scientists focusing more on the psychology and neuroscience behind food cravings have largely debunked this myth.”


“You crave certain foods because you’re deficient in one of the nutrients they provide. Nope—unless you’re a deer or moose."

From Daniel Lieberman, an evolutionary biologist at Harvard University, speaking of the evolutionary reasons why we crave sugar:

“Millions and millions of years ago, apes survived on sugar-rich fruit. These animals evolved to like riper fruit because it had a higher sugar content than unripe fruit and therefore supplied more energy.”

"“Sugar is a deep, deep ancient craving,” said Daniel Lieberman, an evolutionary biologist at Harvard University and author of “The Story the Human Body: Evolution, Health, and Disease.”

And sugar offers more than just energy — it helps us store fat, too.

When we eat table sugar, our bodies break this down into glucose and fructose. Importantly, fructose appears to activate processes in your body that make you want to hold on to fat, explains Richard Johnson, a professor in the department of medicine at the University of Colorado and author of “The Sugar Fix.” At a time when food was scarce and meals inconsistent — hunting is significantly less reliable than a drive-through — hanging on to fat was an advantage, not a health risk.

In a forthcoming paper, Johnson postulates that our earliest ancestors went through a period of significant starvation 15 million years ago in a time of global cooling. “During that time,” he said, “a mutation occurred” that increased the apelike creatures’ sensitivity to fructose so that even small amounts were stored as fat. This adaptation was a survival mechanism: Eat fructose and decrease the likelihood you will starve to death.

The sweet taste was adaptive in other ways as well. In the brain, sugar stimulates the “feel-good” chemical dopamine. This euphoric response makes sense from an evolutionary perspective, since our hunter-gatherer ancestors predisposed to “get hooked” on sugar probably had a better chance of survival (some scientists argue that sugar is an addictive drug).

“Imagine if someone hated sugar in the Paleolithic era,” said Lieberman. “Then they wouldn’t eat enough sugar or have enough energy and wouldn’t have children.”

In other words, anything that made people more likely to eat sugar would also make them more likely to survive and pass along their genes. "

Full piece at

It has zero to do with happiness other than producing dopamine. It produces dopamine to make it more likely for you to eat it in a survival situation in order to save your life. That is millions of years of evolution speaking.

webmd and also talk about fast food cravings of healthy people, not about cravings of people with a certain deficiency.
that’s the second time you make the same “mistake” so i reported your post to the moderators for spam/trolling.

oh, you posted three links. the third one pretends humans don’t have a craving for salt when they have a salt deficiency. that’s a lie, check the wikipedia article you linked to earlier.

USER can you please explain how Chezzo is trolling the thread exactly? He has a different view then you and has provided web links to back up his claims. You however have been abusive and have been using foul language on this forum. Reporting him is only going to get the mods to look at your posts and possibly ban you not Chezzo. Chezzo is also a respected member of the Cata community as well as being one of the Developers.

If anything I see your posts as trolling as none of them have contributed to the discussion here as far as gameplay mechanics are concerned.

USER can you please explain how Chezzo is trolling the thread exactly?
Sure. Chezzo keeps posting "evidence" to support his claim, but his evidence talks about fast food which is irrelevant to the discussion. It's called a [url=]Strawman fallacy[/url]. The problem is not that he has a different opinion, it's that he keeps posting links to articles that have nothing to do with the discussion but he claims they are related.
You however have been abusive and have been using foul language on this forum
This is called an [url=]Ad hominem fallacy[/url], aka [url=]Kill the messenger[/url].
Chezzo is also a respected member of the Cata community as well as being one of the Developers.
This is called an [url=]Appeal to authority fallacy[/url]
If anything I see your posts as trolling as none of them have contributed to the discussion here as far as gameplay mechanics are concerned.
That is your opinion, and that is fine as long as you don't fabricate evidence to convince others that your delusion is correct. You're obviously wrong, of course. Amongst other things i solved [url=]"what if someone reads a long book in multiplayer"[/url]

I love how people on the internet constantly and self righteously use this statement without ever noticing the massive elephant called Irony sitting in the room with them.