Nutritional balancing

Game Talk The Bunker
1

I’ve been playing a survivor and he’s reached Winter on (30 day seasons) but in that time i’ve noticed something that keeps cropping up a lot.

Hypocalcemia

Most of the foods in the game which are tagged for Calcium only have around 4% Calcium, with exclusion of Eggs (20%), Cheese (62%), Milk (62%) and Coconut Milk (83%).

Considering how rare fresh dairy products are in the wasteland i’ve certainly taken to dehydrating any rotten milk i’ve found, but I got to wondering about other foods which would be rich in Calcium and provide that variety and balance which we’re gunning for in creating a varied diet for our survivor.

I did some brief searches on things and found a few interesting notes about certain foods and how much Calcium they contained.

Dandelion Greens 100g - 187 mg
Sardines 100g - 382 mg
Salmon 100g - 382 mg
Spinach 100g - 99 mg
Almonds 100g - 264 mg

milk(wholefat) 100g - 113 mg
milk(nonfat) 100g - 122 mg
milk(powdered) 100g - 912 mg
cheese(cheddar) 100g - 721 mg
cheese(american) 100g - 1045 mg

eggs (boiled) 100g - 50 mg
eggs (scrambled) 100g - 66 mg

So a few things surprised me. Eggs have less Calcium per 100g serving than say 100g Dandelion greens, but in the game they are rated at 20% and 8% respectively.

Oily fish such as Sardines and Salmon have more Calcium per 100g than a 100g serving of milk. (I never even knew that these fish were so calcium rich in the first place) though, canned Sardines and Salmon ingame are rated at 4% Calcium.

I know that the Nutritional feature of Cataclysm is relatively new, so I figured I’d bring these points across; more so since it seems even with my best efforts to have my survivor take in a balanced and nutritional diet of meat, veg, fruit and dairy, Hypocalcemia seems to crop up a LOT more than anything else i’ve ever had. (And i’ve not had any of the other deficiencies yet) so I guess it means that particular ailment needs tweaking or foods need to be a little more balanced to what they should offer in terms of nutrition.

This is just what i’ve noticed from this one side of things, but i’d be curious if anyone else had any other oddities occuring with their diet in Cata.

2

I would then suggest seeking out the nearest ant hive. Ants have all the eggs you could ever need.

Also liberally search wild bushes in the spring and summer, to find some reptile eggs or bird eggs. Should be safer than facing a legion of ants.

Are coconuts farmable?

Are cows milkable?

I mean, what I get out of this is that survivors should just pay extra attention to their calcium intake. Your findings on dandelions greens and sardines should be easy enough to correct.

3

[quote=“BeerBeer, post:2, topic:12197”]I would then suggest seeking out the nearest ant hive. Ants have all the eggs you could ever need.

Also liberally search wild bushes in the spring and summer, to find some reptile eggs or bird eggs. Should be safer than facing a legion of ants.

Are coconuts farmable?

Are cows milkable?

I mean, what I get out of this is that survivors should just pay extra attention to their calcium intake. Your findings on dandelions greens and sardines should be easy enough to correct.[/quote]

I tend to visit Spider Basements and either unleash manhacks or set up bear traps and poke them to death with spears at a distance. I still end up with quite a few bruises though.
I do tend to forage a lot, it’s a great way of supplementing fresh veggies, eggs though are very rare and in order to ensure a decent supply of Calcium i’d have to forage for the majority of my time since there is a much lower drop rate than say wild veggies.
What I have found out just this moment is that Bone Broth gives a whopping 83% calcium, but requires 20 bones to create, so you’ll have to spend some time hunting wolf packs or bears.

I have never seen a palm tree in New England or in game so I don’t believe that coconuts are farmable? So I can’t comment there; but even finding one, I’d be hoping to preserve that milk in a jar or something, but there is no recipe for that.

I’ve also never seen a Cow in Cataclysm; at least a real one… Had plenty of Hallucinations where cows and sheep had appeared, but anytime i’ve ever visited a farm, all i’ve found are Zombie Grenadiers. Even if Cows were there, they’d have been annihilated by any zombies or monsters which spawned nearby.

4

Bone broth is very high in calcium.

I am 50 days into my current playthrough and didn t get calcizum deficiency.

You should also be able to find some multivitamins somewhere.

[quote=“Sundaysmile, post:3, topic:12197”][quote=“BeerBeer, post:2, topic:12197”]I would then suggest seeking out the nearest ant hive. Ants have all the eggs you could ever need.

Also liberally search wild bushes in the spring and summer, to find some reptile eggs or bird eggs. Should be safer than facing a legion of ants.

Are coconuts farmable?

Are cows milkable?

I mean, what I get out of this is that survivors should just pay extra attention to their calcium intake. Your findings on dandelions greens and sardines should be easy enough to correct.[/quote]

I tend to visit Spider Basements and either unleash manhacks or set up bear traps and poke them to death with spears at a distance. I still end up with quite a few bruises though.
I do tend to forage a lot, it’s a great way of supplementing fresh veggies, eggs though are very rare and in order to ensure a decent supply of Calcium i’d have to forage for the majority of my time since there is a much lower drop rate than say wild veggies.
What I have found out just this moment is that Bone Broth gives a whopping 83% calcium, but requires 20 bones to create, so you’ll have to spend some time hunting wolf packs or bears.

I have never seen a palm tree in New England or in game so I don’t believe that coconuts are farmable? So I can’t comment there; but even finding one, I’d be hoping to preserve that milk in a jar or something, but there is no recipe for that.

I’ve also never seen a Cow in Cataclysm; at least a real one… Had plenty of Hallucinations where cows and sheep had appeared, but anytime i’ve ever visited a farm, all i’ve found are Zombie Grenadiers. Even if Cows were there, they’d have been annihilated by any zombies or monsters which spawned nearby. [/quote]

I am not sure if milk even provides anything yet :stuck_out_tongue:

I ll check that .

edit:

Yes milk provides calcium.

To bad that it rots so fast.

5

Many of the fruits have their corresponding seeds or stems. So as unrealistic as it is, you can grow certain tropical fruits in Cata during summer. I just don’t remember particularly seeing coconut “seeds”, or palm tree stems. Hell, I don’t even know how the fruit or the tree spreads in nature IRL. Oftentimes various seeds are found en masse in the fenced gardening section of home improvement store, I think? Of course farm fields often have loose seeds. Cata’s farming realism with regard to many plants is unrealistic, possibly for practical reasons. In Cata there are blueberry “seeds” but the blueberry plant doesn’t propagate like that at all, yet IRL blueberries can be (and are) cultivated. Just one example.

As for animals, I have witnessed cows, horses, pigs… common farm animals reside there. Sometimes. Inside the barn, or in its vicinity. I guess that could be another bone source.

I guess all this puts more value to the Survival skill as well. You get more stuff off of carcasses with higher skill, and I would think that includes bones too, as illogical as that might be. I’m not 100% sure. One would think bones couldn’t be ruined in the butchering process…

6

[quote=“BeerBeer, post:5, topic:12197”]Many of the fruits have their corresponding seeds or stems. So as unrealistic as it is, you can grow certain tropical fruits in Cata during summer. I just don’t remember particularly seeing coconut “seeds”, or palm tree stems. Hell, I don’t even know how the fruit or the tree spreads in nature IRL. Oftentimes various seeds are found en masse in the fenced gardening section of home improvement store, I think? Of course farm fields often have loose seeds. Cata’s farming realism with regard to many plants is unrealistic, possibly for practical reasons. In Cata there are blueberry “seeds” but the blueberry plant doesn’t propagate like that at all, yet IRL blueberries can be (and are) cultivated. Just one example.

As for animals, I have witnessed cows, horses, pigs… common farm animals reside there. Sometimes. Inside the barn, or in its vicinity. I guess that could be another bone source.

I guess all this puts more value to the Survival skill as well. You get more stuff off of carcasses with higher skill, and I would think that includes bones too, as illogical as that might be. I’m not 100% sure. One would think bones couldn’t be ruined in the butchering process…[/quote]

Yeah that’s true with the seeds good point, it has been streamlined to be more accessible to implement an agricultural mechanic to the game; though i’ve never seen Coconut seeds or a means of crafting them from existing Coconuts. (Although, just because I haven’t seen them doesn’t mean they do not exist, there might be some out there for all I know.)

For the Butchering process I see where you’re getting at, every animal has a set number of bones in their body, that shouldn’t really change, but I think the logic behind it is you finding “usable” bones. Bones are used for more than just bone broth afterall, you can fashion armour with them, rudimentary tools and even glue.
I guess in that sense, probably not all bones are going to be used from the carcass, and your Survival skill is demonstrating that as you start off, you’re not sure which bones will serve the best purpose for those particular crafting recipes.

Whereas Bone Broth could conversely take ANY kind of bone no matter what condition it was in, but the game doesn’t distinguish from “usable” bones and “scrap” bones… But that’s just me going off on a tangent and isn’t really relevant here I dont think :stuck_out_tongue:

But overall, yeah. I think the nutritional system is a good idea; Before it was implemented My survivor would just have a Large Waterskin of Water, a Waterskin full of Wood Soup and a Small Waterskin full of Atomic Coffee. Or a Waterskin of V8 if I had the means of making it.

Not really much variety there, so I like that the game encourage me to utilize more of what’s out there, but the current system needs tweaks to better refine it I think, I mean hell… Even processed junk-food has some nutritional value in the real world, yet it has nothing in the game, it’s just there to eliminate hunger. That’s it…

I think I remember in Project Zomboid, there was a Negative Morale effect if you ate the same thing each day, your character would be getting bored of the same old meal and might even get depressed as a result. I haven’t played Zomboid in years, so I don’t know if it’s implemented or ever was…
But that might be a simpler answer to a more complex problem, and it will certainly make Morale more important than ever.

Honestly the only time I’ve had issues with Morale is when I’m playing mentally unbalanced characters who have schizophrenia etc, it’s really a non issue for most “normal” characters.

7

You can gain easy calcium in real life from…broken egg shells.

Just crush them a bit or chew them finely and then swallow them, your stomach will dissolve it for the most part.

8

Ever looked into vitamins?

Also, I believe the coconut itself IS the ‘seed’.

9

[quote=“Rot, post:8, topic:12197”]Ever looked into vitamins?

Also, I believe the coconut itself IS the ‘seed’.[/quote]

I don’t want to become too reliant on vitamins as the sole answer to the above issue, afterall, why bother with the nutritional system if Multivitamins are the ‘be all’ ‘end all’ for all your dietary needs. Especially considering how darn common they are on the loot table.

So yeah, they too factor into Nutritional Balancing as well.

And yeah, the coconut IS the seed, but we still can’t farm them regardless, which I suppose is understandable. But as already mentioned above by BeerBeer, Cata’s New England seems to allow all kinds of things to grow in the area despite the locale, so I’m kinda torn on the issue…

10

You have to be careful with the multi-vitamins now. It may fill in the need for a deficiency but it can them overdo it for some of the others if you have been eating it a lot which will then give you another issue to deal with.

I just try and find the ICBM that helps your health then I don’t have to worry about some it.

Is there a recipe to make cheese? Because there should be. Also why are there no cows/goats/chickens or other farm animals in the game?

There should be some of them.

11

[quote=“Kryxx, post:10, topic:12197”]Is there a recipe to make cheese? Because there should be. Also why are there no cows/goats/chickens or other farm animals in the game?

There should be some of them.[/quote]

Both of those things are already in the game. There’s a recipe for (unperishable) hard cheese, though as it requires milk it’s seldomly used. Farm animals can sometimes be found on farms (d’oh) but they are so rare that they might not even be in the game. Not that this would actually matter, as you can’t milk them anyway (or get eggs from them).

12

@getting eggs

Take a lighter and torch grass spider webs. collect the remains and egg sacks.

13

[quote=“pisskop, post:12, topic:12197”]@getting eggs

Take a lighter and torch grass spider webs. collect the remains and egg sacks.[/quote]

Isn’t there always only one egg sack in the middle of the spider web or are there more?

14

[quote=“Soyweiser, post:13, topic:12197”][quote=“pisskop, post:12, topic:12197”]@getting eggs

Take a lighter and torch grass spider webs. collect the remains and egg sacks.[/quote]

Isn’t there always only one egg sack in the middle of the spider web or are there more?[/quote]

I can’t say about outdoor spider nets, but the nests found in basements usually have between 3-5 egg sacs.

Though it can be a pain since they often explode with hordes of immature spiders that are more nimble than their parents.

15

The life of a survivor just sucks. Before if you wanted steak and eggs you just went to the supermarket. Now you have to kill a bear for the former and delve into a basement full of giant spiders for the latter. It’s like…man, what’s even the point of getting up in the morning anymore…?

16

The carnage. Waking up to a morning of spider eggs that taste like napalm always puts a deranged smile on my face.

17

Shouldn’t spider eggs be renamed to spider sacks?

18

[quote=“BeerBeer, post:5, topic:12197”]Many of the fruits have their corresponding seeds or stems. So as unrealistic as it is, you can grow certain tropical fruits in Cata during summer. I just don’t remember particularly seeing coconut “seeds”, or palm tree stems. Hell, I don’t even know how the fruit or the tree spreads in nature IRL. Oftentimes various seeds are found en masse in the fenced gardening section of home improvement store, I think? Of course farm fields often have loose seeds. Cata’s farming realism with regard to many plants is unrealistic, possibly for practical reasons. In Cata there are blueberry “seeds” but the blueberry plant doesn’t propagate like that at all, yet IRL blueberries can be (and are) cultivated. Just one example.

As for animals, I have witnessed cows, horses, pigs… common farm animals reside there. Sometimes. Inside the barn, or in its vicinity. I guess that could be another bone source.

I guess all this puts more value to the Survival skill as well. You get more stuff off of carcasses with higher skill, and I would think that includes bones too, as illogical as that might be. I’m not 100% sure. One would think bones couldn’t be ruined in the butchering process…[/quote]
I just wanted to say that coconuts ARE the seed of the palm trees that produce them iirc. The point of them is to be able to be resistant to seawater, as they often float across miles of seawater to colonize islands.
I’ve seen coconuts on the ground in the Caribbean that were sprouting.

19

I mentioned that in (I believe) a separate post

20

[quote=“Dot12321, post:18, topic:12197”][quote=“BeerBeer, post:5, topic:12197”]Many of the fruits have their corresponding seeds or stems. So as unrealistic as it is, you can grow certain tropical fruits in Cata during summer. I just don’t remember particularly seeing coconut “seeds”, or palm tree stems. Hell, I don’t even know how the fruit or the tree spreads in nature IRL. Oftentimes various seeds are found en masse in the fenced gardening section of home improvement store, I think? Of course farm fields often have loose seeds. Cata’s farming realism with regard to many plants is unrealistic, possibly for practical reasons. In Cata there are blueberry “seeds” but the blueberry plant doesn’t propagate like that at all, yet IRL blueberries can be (and are) cultivated. Just one example.

As for animals, I have witnessed cows, horses, pigs… common farm animals reside there. Sometimes. Inside the barn, or in its vicinity. I guess that could be another bone source.

I guess all this puts more value to the Survival skill as well. You get more stuff off of carcasses with higher skill, and I would think that includes bones too, as illogical as that might be. I’m not 100% sure. One would think bones couldn’t be ruined in the butchering process…[/quote]
I just wanted to say that coconuts ARE the seed of the palm trees that produce them iirc. The point of them is to be able to be resistant to seawater, as they often float across miles of seawater to colonize islands.
I’ve seen coconuts on the ground in the Caribbean that were sprouting.[/quote]

The thing is, that’s true of a LOT of things - wheat? Berries? Apples/pears/peaches/etc? Part of the definition of “fruit” or “grain” is that it contains (or IS) what you plant to get more of it.