Been playing for not a long time, but I know that when O.E started, Archery was revamped and I was super stoked because I enjoy that type of play. I know that there was an update recently to deal with some archery damage, but man - it seems that Archery is now way worse than it was prior to initial O.E launch. Now, granted, I am playing Dark Skies Above - so maybe the hide on the strays just really are that thick and the archery needed to be brought down to compensate - but it does essentially make archery useless in terms of enemies.
I’m not a whiz with codes and stuff (trying to learn for the sake of seeing how the game works, but it’s very, very slow going), so I couldn’t tell you the numbers in regards to the enemy armor and such. However, I was just curious if:
a) After one of the newest updates, archery is also not as effective against ZEDS,
b) Am I possibly just an idiot and missing the point or something,
c) Was it perhaps TOO nerfed?
The damage I’m doing, when it actually does damage, is pretty good! But, it hardly pierces anything - stray bruisers, new order knights, stray titans (which I definitely understand), etc. My arrows just will not penetrate.
Just curious in regards to whether anyone else is experiencing this, and if archery is also less effective in DDA, not just DSA.
The rework based bows and arrows on real numbers from a painstakingly researched source we found that gave draw weights to momentum and other physics-y stuff.
This then becomes a matter of how you build from those real numbers into game numbers, after the rework they were way too powerful, then they were nerfed, and they may be partially buffed or tweaked in the future - this is how it works in this continous game dev context - you tweak until its right.
But currently the way it is, is that arrows now have realistic delivered energy so can potentially impart a lot of damage, but have fairly weak armour penetration, this is realistic but may need tweaking to sort out the exact cut-off points and gradients.
I dont know much about DSA mod and its enemies or what armour they have, but I suspect they have a good amount, so archery might not be the most viable weapon to use against them.
There is also an over-arching meta-game problem that archery simply shouldn’t be effective against all targets. Because otherwise melee weapons become essentially obsolete.
I definitely understand that. Again, running off of DSA - Stray Titans, I definitely get the arrows doing minimal, if any, damage. They’re freakin’ titans.
But it seems that anything with a hide thicker than your standard stray/ZED, it does nil. Realistically, I’m probably just being a petulant child, and by no means do I want this to come off as me coming after the modders/creators - I’m just happy to be playing this game because it’s great - but I definitely understand that armored opponents will need more than my boadkin and metal arrows to do some piercing.
I wish I could help with that - I am not an expert on Archery, nor providing that type of information of material/type of arrow and the density at which it penetrates depending on strength of bow + how far the target was. I wouldn’t even really know how to formulate that - I leave that to you all who are much smarter. I am but a humble lover of the game who thought I’d finally poke my head into the forums to just ask about it.
I think arrow penetration potential is a tricky question, after all in my understanding of physics if its fast and narrow it can penetrate, if its fast and bulky it can pulp/smash everything, and everything is connected to speed and mass. Maybe a way to tackle this would be adding different kind of arrow heads and just let it craft with an standard arrow body.
Yeah from what i have seen is pretty hard to balance, before 0.E any bow from longbow or upwards was like having a sniper rifle, and now, im doing more damage with my sling and pebbles to normal zeds than my recurve bow with crude arrows.
I think arrow heads would actually be a solid idea. Also, I have come across carbon fiber arrows but can’t make them - not sure if that’s just 'cause I haven’t read the right book or not. But, having some base shafts i.e, wood/metal/carbon fiber/etc. with various arrowheads could be cool. However, I don’t rightly know how that would play into actually coding it into the game. As well, you could also do, say, improvised arrows which would probably be the same as crude - metal and wood alike - for early stage/in a pinch ammo.
the only bow that should feel like a sniper rifle should be one of those XL bowes/crossbows the size of a sapling made for rediculicely 20+ strength mutants/cyborgs combined with steel tiped properly forged botkin arrows/bolts that look more like a javlin than a normal arrow/bolt.
From a pure game-balance perspective I think archery needs a damage buff (though not to the insane levels of 0.E), but before Archery can really be balanced two things need to be done
Make firing bows take Stamina. Potentially a lot of stamina for the high pull bows - that shit is extremely arduous. As well as ‘realism’ this means that archery has less of an absolute advantage over melee, and there is a reason to use something other than the most powerful bow you can find.
Make 5.56mm weapons and ammo much less available. Only about 1 in 5 Zombie Soldiers should still be carrying their weapon, and it should be in terrible condition. Turrets should drop ~50 rounds of ammunition, not 1000. This means that guns are somewhat difficult to obtain and keep using, so the fact you can make your own bow and own arrows is an actual advantage.