New electronics crafts?

[Soron]

A couple of us were talking on IRC recently about the Electronics skill not seeming all that useful, except in a few select circumstances (like bionics). Basically, most of the things you can make are easily scroungeable by the time you’ve got your skill up, or limited in their utility. Something that I think the three of us agreed on was that a few more recipes would be nice, beyond the basic flashlights and hotplates, so I figured I’d start up a brainstorming thread.

Here’s a few to start with.

[ul][li]Basic sonar or hearing enhancer: Enhances auditory feedback about monsters, useful for exploring in the dark, or with restricted LOS. Could be noisy or bulky/heavy as a tradeoff. Difficulty 2-4?[/li]
[li]Alarm system (directional motion-based): sets off a LOUD alarm if anything moves within a certain region in front of it. Likely to wake up even heavy sleepers, but you’ll probably want to split before the noise draws more zombies. Difficulty 1-3?[/li]
[li]High-grade consumables: Refine certain materials into stuff like fusion packs. Should require a fair amount of foraging to get sufficient supplies, for balance and flavor reasons. Probably at least difficulty 5.[/li][/ul]

I also imagine that some of these recipes would be a lot more sensible if we stop having recipes auto-unlock as your skill increases. I can see improvised alarm systems being intuitively craftable, but I’d be surprised to see your average Joe figure out how to make a selective noise enhancer just by practicing his soldering. (now watch my girlfriend’s dad show me how to make one with a pair of radios and a flashlight, or something :P)

[AerialK7]

im not really one for bionics (mainly cause im useless at finding them to pro for them). But i do like the idea of a larger variety. And maybe there could be trade off ones, like, it makes you deaf but you have better vision like seeing further and being able to see 2 blocks ahead in the dark.

[Williham]

And maybe there could be trade off ones, like, it makes you deaf but you have better vision like seeing further and being able to see 2 blocks ahead in the dark.

Not everything needs to be a trade-off, especially in a single-player game, and especially for items that require a lot of effort to find or make in the first place.

Having an improved vision bionic on its own is perfectly fine, and indeed already exists.

[Soron]

I actually was thinking more than just bionics (although I think one of the other people in the original suggested craftable bionics). I’m thinking about uses of electronics in general.

The two durable crafts I proposed, for instance, I envision as being either inventory-activated items (the sonar-ish one), or something that’s dropped on the map, akin to a trap or turret. I know there’s an alarm system bionic already, so I wouldn’t want to interfere with that too much, but an alarm system actually placed on the map could be interesting.

And come to think of it, wiring in general would be a good use for electronics (perhaps in combination with construction), if we think that would make a good addition to the game. Although, that’s probably a longer-term thing (as in, not something that I plan on coding up in the immediate future).

[KA101]

I was thinking that electrohack-usage ought to run off Electronics, rather than Computer, but then my concept of the electrohack is some sort of cross between John Connor’s ATM-defeating device in Terminator 2 & Hudson’s rig in Aliens.

Regarding the issue of recipes appearing at levelup: Bear in mind that unless the devs deleted them already, there are Electronics books going up to skill 10, and at least the first two (skill 5-6 IIRC) can be found in most libraries. My character has the complete set, and is around Electronics 8 pretty much from book study–with CBM installs & making an electrohack, before I found that it’s not really worth using on bunkers accounting for about a point. The high-level book’s description specifically states that it includes step-by-step guides &, IIRC, illustrations. If you’re grinding Electronics, it’s because for some reason you don’t have access to the existing literature.

Motion trackers with audible alarm and/or visual display* should be craftable. The Nostromo’s engineering department (see: Alien) whipped up two of them at the same time as they made electric prods for chestburster-hunting. Figure no more than Electronics 5 for either; Mechanics as a secondary.

*Cyan question mark ? at exact location, provided that the player’s wielding the thing. Otherwise, tick with noise 2 if on person, and whatever noise is needed to wake sleepers if left on but not in inventory.

Hearing-enhancer ought to be craftable too: if one can make a pre-loaded mp3 player from parts, simply making a sensitive microphone with filters and hooking it up to earbuds shouldn’t be a challenge. Would guess Electronics 4.

Not sure how hand-held sonar would work–guessing some sort of metal-detector* thingum? Probably shorter-ranged than the bionic but it might be worth carrying in questionable areas, especially at night.

*Incidentally, this would be another way to find land-mines, etc–both the sonar and just a plain ol’ metal-detector. MD is probably worth adding.

Re bionics: the player already earns them through finding & install, especially since the devs nerfed the sets down to individual bionics. (Seriously, what was the reasoning there? The good stuff is/was already nontrivial to find–I’d had one Lab finale come up Bionics…and completely empty.) I don’t want to hear somebody claim that they’re “too pro” to use them personally, but it’s OK to make them even worse.

[AerialK7]

I don’t want to hear somebody claim that they’re “too pro” to use them personally, but it’s OK to make them even worse.

It was a joke, I suck at finding them and if i do Ill usually fail because of no electronics skill. And I was thinking before and thought trade-offs were sorta a bad idea. Just a thought, but maybe there could be a chance of stuff like the integrated toolset will have a chance to spawn in a hardware store

[KA101]

Some of the lower-level CBMs ought to show up in Mines–I’ve encountered a few Utilities/Construction canisters in the office/on corpses in 02Feb. Since general bionics are most common in labs, having them show in Electronics might be a bit much, but one turning up in the back of a Pawn Shop might be interesting.

After the Static Spawn & CBM-splitting debacle I’m pretty humorless when it comes to nerfing. Sorry about that.

[The_Darkling_Wolf]

You’re more than welcome to fork the project and take it in your own direction if you dislike our changes.

I personally don’t see how making the game not crap zombies on you every time you take a step, and allowing us to fine tune CBMs to make their spawning more common is a nerf, but whatever.

[KA101]

I’ve considered it. Tough part is figuring out the code (what happens where, etc) and finding a compiler.

But it’s good to at least hear a rationale for why you folks split the CBMs. Prior to your post the most I’d seen was the wiki’s (paraphrased) “No more CBM sets!”.

I’ve regarded splitting as a nerf because players no longer get the choice of one aug from whatever pack spawns, but only whatever aug spawns. I wouldn’t like to have the only power-source in the area be Metabolic Interchange. Now that I’ve heard your reasoning, I’ll reserve judgment on the net effect until that file gets some more mileage. The March playthrough is on day 5-6 or so, and the Lab came up nukes.

Thank you for taking the time to explain the reasoning behind CBM-splitting.

[system]

Radar, Solars, and Alarms.

[The_Darkling_Wolf]

[quote=“KA101, post:9, topic:643”]I’ve considered it. Tough part is figuring out the code (what happens where, etc) and finding a compiler.

But it’s good to at least hear a rationale for why you folks split the CBMs. Prior to your post the most I’d seen was the wiki’s (paraphrased) “No more CBM sets!”.

I’ve regarded splitting as a nerf because players no longer get the choice of one aug from whatever pack spawns, but only whatever aug spawns. I wouldn’t like to have the only power-source in the area be Metabolic Interchange. Now that I’ve heard your reasoning, I’ll reserve judgment on the net effect until that file gets some more mileage. The March playthrough is on day 5-6 or so, and the Lab came up nukes.

Thank you for taking the time to explain the reasoning behind CBM-splitting.[/quote]
My apologies if I sounded a bit short there, I do agree with you somewhat, having the CBMs be in sets was fairly nice, and it’s not totally out of the question yet for some of them at least. But as we work it will be nice to be able to go ‘Well x can logically spawn here, so put it here’ rather than going 'well, x could spawn there, but it doesn’t make much sense for y, so I guess we’ll just leave it in labs’
As for the specific problem with Metabolic Interchange, it’s just a terrible bionic in general and will be improved at some point.

As for working with the code, In Windows I suggest Code::Blocks with MinGW download here, it’s what I use. For Linux, I have no suggestions, I just used Nano. And we’re happy to answer questions, the code is woefully undocumented at the moment.

[Soron]

If you get Survival up to 3, you have slightly more than a 50% chance of getting a battery system bionic from butchering shocker zombies. Given that they’re not terribly uncommon (overall), it shouldn’t be hard to get at least one that installs successfully.

As for figuring out how the code works: ask! I agree that it’s kinda hairy, and I certainly would be willing to help out with whatever tidbits I can.

[Iosyn]

Butchering CBMs from zombies? turns classic mode off.

As for the sonar, great idea but why does it need to be bulky? Maybe if you make some kind of metal detector (give say, a 8x8 range to detect any traps with metal components, i.e bear traps, landmines etc.)

However how about this:
Directional microphone
Primary Skill: Electronics
Req. Skill: 5/6

Tools: Soldering iron, Screwdriver
Materials:

[ul][li]2x Antenna (or x4, ideally most of the space would be used by a fine-tuned antenna.)[/li]
[li]2x Amplifier circuit[/li]
[li]1x Signal reciever [/li]
[li]1x mp3 player (for the headphones, unless someone can think of a better idea to represent headphones/earplugs)[/li][/ul]

[li]10x copper wire (headphone leads, internal wiring)
[/li][/list]

As for how it would work ingame, I can see two options: Fire it like a silenced gun and represent anything moving around the shot terminus as ?s with a margin of error dictated by distance (increases exponentially after say, 15-20 tiles) or use it as a 1-tile wide ‘laser beam’ of hearing up to the same distance, but without much error margin.

Thing is, what is sound? sound is vibration. Directional or directional laser Mikes can pick up these vibrations, try to filter out the noise and boost the output. If you fire a laser mike at a window, you can actually tell what people inside that room are talking about due to the vibrations on the window.

[Tripsky]

well if we’re brainstorming… and note that i brainstorm with no idea as to how to program, compile etc. think wishlist

my personal goal in dda is a) survive and then b) get comfortable. comfortable for me is a sweet setup, like an expanded LMOE shelter - with all the trimmings. carports, palisade walls, armoury etc and one thing that i always think about, something that my character always wants - is power. in the classic voltage/amps style. i’ve got solar panels, i’ve got storage batteries, i’ve got wire - but what i want is internal lighting, heating, battery chargers, maybe even electric powered traps. hell, i want to drag my own computer back to my base and play ascii games on it.

i’m not sure what the devs plans are, and i have no idea how much is hardcoded (or even what that statement really means), but being able to do some good ol’ fashioned, ad hoc wiring is right up my survivalist alley. just something i feel would flesh out construction a bit more, but obviously the electronics skill would come into play for the installation and more difficult setups.

devs if you read this, i humbly bow to your great work thus far. loving the game and the speed and direction of development! keep it up!

[kenoxite]

This was suggested already in another thread, but an alarm clock would surely come handy, to help regulate sleep cycles.

[Shoes]

On reading about “learning” recipes… what if there were recipe books? You could find an instructions manual for how to assemble an alarm, or how to mod x to become y. In labs, you could find CBM blueprints. In bunkers, you could find gun/armor prints. I think that would be super cool.

[DeepEnd]

Add RC controlled toycars. Skill for controlling these cards would be average of driving and electronics. Toy cars chew up batteries (electric version) or fuel (louder motor version).

Skill level 2 : Toy car with real car horn/radio - mislead zombies who fail a scent roll.
Skill level 3 : Booster for remote control and car antenna.
Skill level 4 : Toy car with video camera for scouting.
Skill level 5 : Even larger boost to range.
Skill level 6 : Toy car with firearm or remote detonated grenade-rigged toy car. (Aka - replace your throwing skill with driving skill.)

[KA101]

On reading about “learning” recipes… what if there were recipe books? You could find an instructions manual for how to assemble an alarm, or how to mod x to become y. In labs, you could find CBM blueprints. In bunkers, you could find gun/armor prints. I think that would be super cool.

Pretty much the top-level Electronics book, according to its description.

[system]

[quote=“DeepEnd, post:17, topic:643”]Add RC controlled toycars. Skill for controlling these cards would be average of driving and electronics. Toy cars chew up batteries (electric version) or fuel (louder motor version).

Skill level 2 : Toy car with real car horn/radio - mislead zombies who fail a scent roll.
Skill level 3 : Booster for remote control and car antenna.
Skill level 4 : Toy car with video camera for scouting.
Skill level 5 : Even larger boost to range.
Skill level 6 : Toy car with firearm or remote detonated grenade-rigged toy car. (Aka - replace your throwing skill with driving skill.)[/quote]

[Grackle]

Radio triggers for explosives would be great. Instead of a timer C4 could have a detonator with an adjustable frequency. Space Station 13 has a set up like that, and it’s pretty fun to mail a bomb to the bridge and then detonate it from halfway across the station. Although I guess it would be weird in Cata since you couldn’t blow up an unloaded region.

With a really high level in electronics you should be able to build robo buddies.

Crafting is cool, but adding stuff to Construction menu would make electronics really shine: Wiring a fortress. Hooking up a gasoline-powered generator. Motion detecting spotlights. Having a garage door opener. Stuff like that.