Craftable mods would be fairly limited–bipods, grips, etc. This came up elsewhere and hit the no-precision-machining ban in the design doc.[/quote]
Weapons factorys with percision machining
Eh, isn’t 3d printing supposed to be the next new thing in small scale precision fabrication? By the time the game takes place you could probably buy a machine from Wal-Mart that can fabricate objects to precise tolerances (out of shitty zinc-alloy pot-metal) that could be used to make gun parts. Not gun barrels, springs or anything that has to withstand shock or impact, but low-end optics, magazines, receivers, stuff like that, sure.
Also, CNC machines are fairly commonplace and standardized in the US. So are little boutique shops that fabricate AR-15s and AR-15 accessories. Assuming it was possible to power and maintain one and the survivor knew how to program such a thing, why not? I don’t think CNC machines or their futuristic counterparts could be something you could dismantle and stick in your evac shelter basement or mount inside your RV, though, but they are not on the same scale as a real factory.
cnc would be limited in use as they only do one layer of sheet metal at a time, so complex designs would have to be done in layers and then precision welded and would probably still need to be grinded or sandpapered. Or maybe Im just stupid and don’t know anything about the more advanced C&C machines…like the idea though maybe whatever machine it is is a rare spawn in public works or machine factories which would be super rare.
Not really. Modern CNC does include automated mills (or routers if you like wood) and/or lathes. Even so, the problem then becomes availability of precision machining tool heads, as well as the large blocks needed as stock-feed. But given the existence of weaponized lasers and plasma, the former may be irrelevant. Meanwhile compactors capable of pressure welding steel could take care of the later.
But I’m okay with the design document anyway…
What really amazes me is that they were able to make replaceable, interchangeable parts back in the 19th and even 18th century without all our modern fanciness.
Theoreticly you would be able to craft anything up from scratch by hand given the needed resources.
It would just take all the knowledge and time for the chain of tools you d have to craft before crafting what you intended to in the first place… which may very well take ages.
Apart from that i think in earlier times interchangeable parts where just not as precise as today but had a higher margin for error so somethin where you wanna pu something else into was a bit bigger then needed and not totaly precisely just big enough.
If I am not mistaken the parts were not so much “interchangable” as “this piece can go where that piece used to…if you have some parts and tools to move things about and make it work if it wants or not” that said it is amazing the kind of precision a craftsman with a fetish for perfection could achieve with only hand tools. I have seen a sterling silver jewelry box from prewar japan that could not have been closer to airtight perfection if made on modern machines… that shit is impressive. Just depends on the competence of the craftsman and how pressed for time they are. Cars, probably not going to see that same level of precision, and someone in apocalypse is going to need something like 25+ levels or something…maybe 50… we are talking best in the world type precision with hands that never shake to meat the potential of advanced machine precision…right?
As of now a skill lvl of 10 is considered worldclass afaik…
what would be considered legendary old monk jujitsu master.
10 is considered a recocnysed master amongst his peers as far as i know.
so yeah legendary … still 10 should be sufficient.
there may be some balancing issues.
Well, skill level 10 is considered ‘professional grade’ like a doctor has a Medical skill of 10. You have to read literature and practice frequently to maintain that level of proficiency. I mean it takes 12 skill in mechanics to install a second engine in a car and plenty of small hot-rod type shops can do that.
20 might be considered world-class, 24 might be legendary old monk guy. The game really breaks down much further then that.
That said, precise machining with handtools and an arc welder would probably require super-human levels of skill.
10 is or was worldclass skill as stated by the devs. This may have changed and have some conflicting skills like mechnics but it has been stated as such.
In no other skill tree then mechanics will you ever need a skill lvl of over 11 to reliably craft everything. there may have been some additions that have been made lately that i am not aware of. maybe we should get an update on whats what in skill lvls.
edit: Your logic is fine though. I am just saying what it is suposed to be.
so basically only reliable way to get above 10 in game should be to have skill rust off, or have memory bionic. anything above 10 starts to get into superhuman skills like being able to craft a gun out of scrap metal with nothing but a welder and hand tools. That sounds nice.
The dev thing I read said 10 is professional level, so a level 10 in skill would be about the ceiling for what would be required to craft the vast majority of things in the game. Beyond that, I think you get into the realm where you’re inventing your own processes and are a pioneer or innovator or well-known expert in a field.
Well, except with mechanics, which just seems to level or scale differently.
Attributes, like strength, 8 is average, 14 is ‘world class’.
If you have skill rust on its already extremely hard to get fabrication above 10.
Skills like mechanics can be raised by repairing parts which doesn t take much time.
The speed with which we gain skill lvls is a bit fast is whats the problem.
Another thing is when you craft things that take longer skill rust will set in midcraft… i think that should be removed.
As long as everything was as hard to raise as fabrication over ten your suggestion is sound.
“After 2 years of constant practice william mc gunsmith managed to form an industrial grade sniper rifle with basic tools ,skill and lots of patience over… 3 months of work… he calls her betty.”
@ burnt earth:
your definatly right with the atributes.
[quote=“Burnt Earth, post:13, topic:8909”]The dev thing I read said 10 is professional level, so a level 10 in skill would be about the ceiling for what would be required to craft the vast majority of things in the game. Beyond that, I think you get into the realm where you’re inventing your own processes and are a pioneer or innovator or well-known expert in a field.
Well, except with mechanics, which just seems to level or scale differently.[/quote]
5 is professional level, 10 is when one does absolutely nothing but train in that skill. Sorta like olympic athlete, but these are 8-9.
And mechanics just was never rebalanced from the times where 20 was the “realistic cap”.
Once upon a time, guns were made by hand. This wouldn’t work for all the parts of many of the guns in use today, but for firearms with simpler parts, it absolutely would. (Though, you may also need wood. Hell, gunsmiths used to be the profession that made fishing rods just because they already had the woodworking skills required.)
[quote=“Barhandar, post:15, topic:8909”][quote=“Burnt Earth, post:13, topic:8909”]The dev thing I read said 10 is professional level, so a level 10 in skill would be about the ceiling for what would be required to craft the vast majority of things in the game. Beyond that, I think you get into the realm where you’re inventing your own processes and are a pioneer or innovator or well-known expert in a field.
Well, except with mechanics, which just seems to level or scale differently.[/quote]
5 is professional level, 10 is when one does absolutely nothing but train in that skill. Sorta like olympic athlete, but these are 8-9.
And mechanics just was never rebalanced from the times where 20 was the “realistic cap”.[/quote]
I’d say ~5-7 is like journeyman, 8-10 is a master if you’re familiar with that system. Anything in the game you do or craft or do at 10 skill is something some guy at a local business in the phone book could do. I would’nt compare it to the olympics, but yeah somebody who does something as an expert in a skill and can competently do anything asked of them in a particular profession would be 10.
So there are a lot of blackbelt judokas in the world that have mastered everything there is to know in judo, but not all of them are skilled enough to compete in the olympics, you know?
Sorry, I tend to quibble about semantics and I feel like there is a significant distinction between being a master of a trade and being ‘world-class’
agreed that sounds about right.
on another note possibly biggest improvement… make l I and ] not look all exactly the same maybe?
Dev here.
10 skill is “you would be recognized as one of the top folks, in the world, in this skill”. (Bear in mind that lab folks worked in teams and had access to better gear than you did, so a recipe that difficulty 10 for you might not have been for them.)
Mechanics needs reworked to accommodate this (specifically, multi-engine installs) and the mk2 power supply CBM’s recipe-difficulty might need downtuned a notch (or not, and make it extremely tough to craft). Those aside, we’d then impose a hard cap, probably at 10 (99%) to give a window for rust.
In trades-grading: 1-4 would be apprentice; 4-6 would be journeyman; 6-8+ would be master. Overlap gives room for differential reviews, stats, etc.