The system now is that the mutation stops automatically.
I am suggesting that it does not stop automatically… isn t that more risk?
And if you do not know what mutation is coming then having the abillity to stop it beforehand doesn t yield an advantage.
Why doesn t it fit lorewise ? You can activate the blob with mutagen and you can effectively rid yourself of the blob stopping its alterations as of stated in lab notes.
so your saying
[center]Old version = New version[/center]
For:
[center]Purifier = Human Mutagen
N/A = Halter
Mutagen = Mutagen[/center]
I was saying that maybe for realism make it:
[center]Purifier = Human Mutagen
N/A = Purifier Halter
N/A = Mutagen Halter
Mutagen = Mutagen[/center]
I figured that since Purifier is turning you back into a human, it must have some base DNA that it is using like a biological “back-up” point. While the mutagen just causes random (non-cancerous) mutations and has no set destination that the two would require different substances to halt. Maybe taking {Human Mutagen equivalent} while Mutagen is active (and vice-versa) results in some serious sickness debuffs while ultimately resulting in no or little mutation either way until one of them wears out… or just random mutation both ways and stacking debuffs.
Maybe… make it so that (a)ctivating “new” Purifier the first time results in it making a “save point” that it then tries to restore you to when (a)ctivated a second time… or make another item that does this. Should definitely be an expensive recipe, and maybe not always as effective as mutagen thus requiring 2 to get to the point you left from if you only used one mutagen to get there.
Add (D)etailed description action when looking at an item, this would allow a lot of items to be given a much larger in-game description, which would be helpful for some of the more complex mods. If this is done then:
when getting a good look at “save point” mutagen stuff you get something like:
| You look at the container labeled “restore mutagen compound”
| it has a needle for drawing some blood, and a little blue LED is lit up
| next to the stenciled words “Untargeted”
Then when you’ve used it the first time and it has a “save point”
| You look at the container labeled “restore mutagen compound”
| it has a needle for drawing some blood, and a little red LED is lit up
| next to the stenciled words “targeted” even so it would likely get difficult
| to tell several of these apart. Sticky notes or scratching the metal to mark
| the different ones might be a good idea. |
|---|
…My original idea on the “targeted” one have a screen display or something
with random gibberish written on it and random letters/symbols being associated with
in-game mutations… but thats just way overly complex and syringes of stuff don’t normally go that high tech.
but it would have looked a little like this:
| asdiv&85^$(f7v^j4$d7ybe
| d^i4/,Kic$^g8v:/ckdif7^%
| asdiv&85^$(f7v^j4$d7ybe
| d^i4/,Kic$^g8v:/ckdif7^%
| asdiv&85^$(f7v^j4$d7ybe
| d^i4/,Kic$^g8v:/ckdif7^%
What I see mutation being is a grab bag like vache was saying, until you get so late game that you’ve already “won” and you are only playing to see how badass you can get etc…
By that point there is no game-breaking, so you only need to worry about any one feature being TOO OP, and keeping with lore. Which would HAVE to include celebrities, VIP’s, and high end bodyguards etc… being willing to pay TOP dollar for mutagens that have a more… controllable outcome. Unfortunately for you there is no team of scientists working around the clock, to custom fit & target a mutagen to a specific goal, but with enough science skill (cooking) you can manage to control the overall direction of your mutations… even if only via stopping any unwanted mutations in their tracks.
Targeted mutagen has a specific target. So i see no diferense betweeen say bird mutagen and human mutagen.
And i would propose that purifier works by expunging the blob in your body… which is why it wouldn t mater which mutation you are undergoing (except mycus)
What i propose is different in the ressources needed but not in the risks taken.
The survivor doesn t have scientist to help him make mutagen but he can use already made targeted mutagen if he should find it.
um… ok so yea… I have not gone far enough to know that so Ima just jet now…clearly I can have no further (did I even have any) positive influence on this discussion.
I haven t read you other idea yet. But i have no time right now… gotta go sleep. I ll entertain it tomorrow.
If nothing else you made me happy because i like to argue .
And perhaps someone can pick up something you said and formulate an idea out of it .
eh. Ive had worse days than arguing with a fox.
[quote=“Valpo, post:21, topic:10651”]The system now is that the mutation stops automatically.
I am suggesting that it does not stop automatically… isn t that more risk?[/quote]
You’re suggesting a system that can be stopped at will, encouraging rolling mutations.
Purifier being unstoppable would be a nice way to make mutation roulette less about “perfect mutant with cherry-picked mutations” and more about “good enough mutant with stuff I want and not much stuff I don’t want”.
Since mutation halter would probably just remove an effect, adding it in a mod would be next to trivial. Moving it to just a mod thing would allow some more precise balancing regarding mutations in the core game.
Clearly we need a fox mutation category.
Ditto this guy that said what I said earlier for saying what I said he said.
I think I see what valpo is saying, basically a new or replacement mutagen that once you take it, you keep mutating until something stops it.
I think what Coolthulu is getting at is that now, each time you take a dose of mutagen, there is a chance of getting multiple mutations, if the mutations were trickling in over time and you could take purifier to halt further mutations immediately, that would be more precise. I agree, if we did the ‘mutations over time’ thing, purifier (or mutation stopper, whatever) would halt the ongoing mutation effect, but any mutations that had started already would keep going, that would keep things similar to how they are now, where you have only loose control over how much mutation happens per dose of mutagen.
as for a ‘super serum’ that takes you all the way to a threshold, I could see doing that, with two caveats. One, it would be very dangerous, you had better have a safe house and enough supplies to ride out the process, and it might even go bad, requiring you to take purifier to halt the process so it doesn’t kill you. Two, the same as existing serums, it wouldn’t be guaranteed to only give you targeted mutations, you’d pick up plenty of other mutations along the way.
It’d be neat if you had to build a whole makeshift lab and spend a season in a tube in order to perform targeted and controlled mutations. Maybe even have to have an npc companion with high cooking and mechanics skill too.
You could probably do it to npc companions yourself too, though they’d be out of commission for a while and you’d probably need a few persuasion checks.
Could also serve as an alternate way to post-threshold, even if you use the disable mutagens mod.
Could even expand upon the mutation system with it, I guess, if you’re playing an a-moral character who wants to design biological horrors to help combat the encroaching threat(s).
Why not roll the idea of targeted mutations into a quest? Like one of the original mutation journal authors sending out an S.O.S. from a mutant infested lab? Save them from the escaped experiments, help them rebuild their lab and reap the rewards. Or find out the scientist is evil and side with the mutant freedom fighters.
[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:30, topic:10651”]I think I see what valpo is saying, basically a new or replacement mutagen that once you take it, you keep mutating until something stops it.
I think what Coolthulu is getting at is that now, each time you take a dose of mutagen, there is a chance of getting multiple mutations, if the mutations were trickling in over time and you could take purifier to halt further mutations immediately, that would be more precise. I agree, if we did the ‘mutations over time’ thing, purifier (or mutation stopper, whatever) would halt the ongoing mutation effect, but any mutations that had started already would keep going, that would keep things similar to how they are now, where you have only loose control over how much mutation happens per dose of mutagen.
as for a ‘super serum’ that takes you all the way to a threshold, I could see doing that, with two caveats. One, it would be very dangerous, you had better have a safe house and enough supplies to ride out the process, and it might even go bad, requiring you to take purifier to halt the process so it doesn’t kill you. Two, the same as existing serums, it wouldn’t be guaranteed to only give you targeted mutations, you’d pick up plenty of other mutations along the way.[/quote]
I agree that there should be dangers. Targeted mutagen as it is now does produce random mutations at times but it doesn t amount to much usualy.
If you take targeted mutagen only then you ll most likely get exactly what you want… with all pros and cons.
Maybe we could put more negative/neutral mutations further down each mutation path so that if you can t find purifier in time you ll also get those sooner or later.
Or add in extra fun into the stonger mutagens. Like dunno random pain, limb damage or halucinations.
[quote=“Valpo, post:33, topic:10651”]Maybe we could put more negative/neutral mutations further down each mutation path so that if you can t find purifier in time you ll also get those sooner or later.
Or add in extra fun into the stonger mutagens. Like dunno random pain, limb damage or halucinations.[/quote]
If anything, it would require making it so that bad mutations happen before the good ones, not after. Canceling only the bad mutations with purifier is one of the problems here.
And adding pain and limb damage to stronger mutagens wouldn’t do anything to address the problem of cherry-picked mutations. You can easily sleep off all of those.
It would require something permanent to work. For example, having stronger mutagens remove good (and sometimes neutral, but never bad) mutations that don’t fit the mutation tree.
But also survivors would need a reason to try this.
Doing something that will only hurt you won t be done by anyone.
[quote=“Valpo, post:35, topic:10651”]But also survivors would need a reason to try this.
Doing something that will only hurt you won t be done by anyone.[/quote]
But it shouldn’t be about grinding only the good mutations. That’s tedious, bad for balance and makes mutating without grinding a bad idea.
Instead the mutations should be balanced so that having both the good and the bad ones at the same time should be good enough.
Currently there are some really good mutations, but most are untested.
Mutations that grant vision are great, mutations that cause problems with armoring (or encumbrance) are often really, really bad.
Some mutations could lose the threshold-only status. For example, alcohol metabolism, hibernation, large and infection immune.
So you want the paths to be balanced befor fiddling with the way survivors mutate?
Well i can definatly see merit in that. A good foundation makes building a house easier.
I was talking mostly about the proper way to handle the mutation grind thing.
With robust mutation, mutations are worth it already, even without purifier. Especially when you get night vision upgrades.
Also, current mutation system isn’t exactly tightly balanced. There is no strict balance to keep, so even major changes are unlikely to wreck much.
And if it wrecks mutation cherrypicking, it’s not really a big deal. CBMs are for cherrypicking, mutations are supposed to be chaotic.
Still, some mutations may need adjustment before updating the whole mutation system. I’m talking about bodypart mutations - getting herbivore hurts, but it isn’t game changing at no point, getting webbed hands means you can’t wear hazmat or power armor and any gloves early on.
Maybe we could inhibit the cherrypicking by restricting mutations to their path . So you can only benefit from the positive mutation from one path. Or perhaps be even more evil and only restrict the good mutations and let the bad one be still “available” from all paths .
That just sounds evil enough to kill of the desire for mutations.