Would it be possible to allow the integrated toolset to be activated to serve as a cutting tool, to turn cloth into rags and such?
Alternatively, could it be made to work more like the molecular blade/claws, such that it has to be activated (for a small charge cost) and occupy the hands in order to be used for anything?
+1!
Also down for these little fix ups that deserve to be in game
+1
yep +1
Deserves a plus include, but I can’t do that, so we’ll have to settle for a +1.
+2 ?
jumps on the bandwagon
+1
-1 to making it an active bionic, half the draw of it is that it’s passive.
Unless it keeps being passive for crafting and you just need to activate it to use it actively as a knife and similar tasks, in which case knock yourselves out.
[quote=“ChristopherWalken, post:8, topic:6195”]-1 to making it an active bionic, half the draw of it is that it’s passive.
Unless it keeps being passive for crafting and you just need to activate it to use it actively as a knife and similar tasks, in which case knock yourselves out.[/quote]
My thinking is that integrated toolset, as a fully passive system, is too good. It does everything. Changing it so that you activate it (low one-time power cost) and it occupies the hands (you can’t use weapons while it’s out) would help offset the pure awesome of this welder/hacksaw/hammer/wrench/screwdriver/etc.
It would still be absolutely better than carrying around all the tools. It has neither volume nor inventory weight. It would also give us an inventory “item” which could be activated to provide the options to use its tools in-world: Hacksaw, knife, etc.
+0
[quote=“ChristopherWalken, post:8, topic:6195”]-1 to making it an active bionic, half the draw of it is that it’s passive.
Unless it keeps being passive for crafting and you just need to activate it to use it actively as a knife and similar tasks, in which case knock yourselves out.[/quote]
I say no knife at all.
Not to be a hater, but that kinda doesn’t make sense. The toolset costs power in the crafting menu that is more than a (low on-time power cost), so this would effectively BUFF an already strong CBM. Also, beings that you have to open the crafting menu, it would add a lot of tedium to make it an active bionic and have to open the bionics menu and then activate it and then craft and then get attacked and have to re-open the bionics menu and deactivate so I can have my hand back.
That also doesn’t make any sense. Why reinvent the wheel? Bionics already has a menu of its own.
The reason I wouldn’t have a knife is because the integrated toolset is designed specifically for mechanics. It simply wouldn’t fit. Now something I would totally like to see is a tailoring based CBM. It could have scissors, a needle, and a thread manufacturing system similar to a spider. If we keep going, why not add an electronics toolset complete with a soldering iron! I have no idea why that is the only item that you need other than an integrated toolset to build electronics. There should be wire snips and pliers with a screwdriver too incase its your only toolset CBM.
[quote=“fishy1234555, post:10, topic:6195”]+0
[quote=“ChristopherWalken, post:8, topic:6195”]-1 to making it an active bionic, half the draw of it is that it’s passive.
Unless it keeps being passive for crafting and you just need to activate it to use it actively as a knife and similar tasks, in which case knock yourselves out.[/quote]
I say no knife at all.[/quote]
It is already a cutting tool.
[quote="Khrysanth, post:9, topic:6195"]My thinking is that integrated toolset, as a fully passive system, is too good. It does everything. Changing it so that you activate it (low one-time power cost) and it occupies the hands (you can't use weapons while it's out) would help offset the pure awesome of this welder/hacksaw/hammer/wrench/screwdriver/etc.[/quote] Not to be a hater, but that kinda doesn't make sense. The toolset costs power in the crafting menu that is more than a (low on-time power cost), so this would effectively BUFF an already strong CBM. Also, beings that you have to open the crafting menu, it would add a lot of tedium to make it an active bionic and have to open the bionics menu and then activate it and then craft and then get attacked and have to re-open the bionics menu and deactivate so I can have my hand back.
You seem to have a misunderstanding here. I’m not proposing making the crafting recipes that require charge no longer do so. I’m proposing that the integrated tools not be usable at all without extending them. As for why it should be an activated bionic, occupying the hand - You are not simply tapping on things with your fingers. You have a freaking hammer, hacksaw, screwdriver, welder and so on in your body.
[quote="Khrysanth, post:9, topic:6195"]It would still be absolutely better than carrying around all the tools. It has neither volume nor inventory weight. It would also give us an inventory "item" which could be activated to provide the options to use its tools in-world: Hacksaw, knife, etc.[/quote] That also doesn't make any sense. Why reinvent the wheel? Bionics already has a menu of its own.The reason I wouldn’t have a knife is because the integrated toolset is designed specifically for mechanics. It simply wouldn’t fit. Now something I would totally like to see is a tailoring based CBM. It could have scissors, a needle, and a thread manufacturing system similar to a spider. If we keep going, why not add an electronics toolset complete with a soldering iron! I have no idea why that is the only item that you need other than an integrated toolset to build electronics. There should be wire snips and pliers with a screwdriver too incase its your only toolset CBM.
The reason I propose making it an activated bionic is actually to have it make more sense. As I said, it is already a cutting tool. It is already a soldering iron. But as it stands right not it cannot be used outside of the crafting menus for those purposes, which makes no sense. By having it activate and become an “item” in your hands, you can have these functions available in other places that make sense.
If you can use the hacksaw to cut parts off of a vehicle, why can’t you use that same hacksaw to cut through other things in-world? If you can butcher an animal with the tools, why can’t you cut clothing into rags and scrape fur into leather? If you can boil water and cook food with it, why can’t you light the fireplace right next to you?
OK, I think fishy and Khrysanth hit on some decent points.
I like letting folks use the toolset outside of crafting. I’m hesitant to charge bionic power for that though because bionic power is a lot more “valuable” than non-bionic power: you can’t have as much of it around at a time, it’s either time-intensive or lossy (internal furnace, fine, but you have to Eat All The Things: player time!) to obtain it, and you need much less of it to do things. (Used to be that you couldn’t convert it into non-bionic power either, and then the internal-UPS PR landed.)
If you’d be willing to require that you have power in order to use the toolset (in other words, using the non-powered functions costs “negligible” rather than “no” power: you don’t use enough to merit a charge but 0 power doesn’t work), sure, I’d accept that.
Agreed with fishy that manual extension-retraction seems more tedious than worthwhile. In a crafting context, I think it’s safe to assume that you’d deploy/retract tools as needed, and likewise when you stop scraping a hide, cutting up cotton, etc. “Whoops, you forgot to put your soldering iron away” seems like the jagoff-DM aspect of Nethack, and not something I’d want in DDA.
(Hacksaws and such are kinda specialized for their purpose. I wouldn’t try to use a saw blade for butchering.)
My problem with expanding the toolset uses is that it’s already insanely OP, it makes most other tools in the game obsolete.
We can crank CBM power usage down, for example make one use out of 10 use a unit of power, or even 1/100. I’d assume all the tools it provides are power tools, because hey, why not? (pre-cataclysm thinking)
Alternately the coarseness of bionic power has come up before, we can just multiply all sources and consumers of power by 10, 100, whatever if it’s a problem.
To be honest, I agree that the internal toolset is overpowered. That was part of my thinking for this, in fact.
I’d be fine if separate tools had their own CBMs, rather than a one-size-fits-all supertool. Having tools on-hand, with no volume or weight occupied, is a pretty big thing. Having them powered by an internal power supply that is rechargeable in various ways is also pretty big.
Having tools exist only under certain circumstances is one of those “mai immurshun!” things.