That’s the major change I’ll be making - the ability to abort during the run-up.
Could this also mean that we ll be able to dive through the windows of burning buildings a la Action Moovie style?
Yep.
Yess!!! You really know how to make random people in the internet happy!
Dankeshon, GlyphGryph!
[quote=“GlyphGryph, post:59, topic:2816”]Yeah yeah I know I’m supposed to be getting on it. >_< I was verbally berating myself for not getting it done even as I mentioned the pits.
My implementation will be similar but not exactly the same.
As a trap though, I think there’s already code that lets you avoid it if it’s been set off, or let’s you change the result. So it could display “You carefully move around the edges of the hole” as a stop-gap measure.
Of course that takes away the fun of jumping over the hole and landing on another hole. ;)[/quote]
And since you’re coming down from a jump, you’ll hit harder, being more likely to break the floor if there’s a weight/pressure check. Unfortunately, that seems likely to cause a death-spiral. Not so fun IMO.
As for jumping, generally…check yourselves. No sense giving LazyCat any grounds to actually have a valid complaint against yunz. 
I believe an ice mist was mentioned in the thread?
Cryo-Spitter Zombie
"This zombie’s flesh has a pale, blueish tint. It’s mouth is deformed into a round spitter, and you feel colder when you look at it"
It’s intended to be a frozen spitter zombie, but it has a rather short range, rather a large burst that works like a shocker zed.
“The ice shards shred your [body part w/ environmental protection below 2]'s skin” - Take 1 damage.
Cryo-Scientist Zombie
"This stumbling corpse still has their thick enviro-suit on, presumably from before they were infected."
A moderately armored zed, can’t bite, but takes a hit better than most. Acid bombs won’t damage, to be Ice Grenades won’t slow them.
Ice Globin & Small Ice Globin
"A [small] blob of thick blue goop. You aren’t quite sure how something so…fluid-like could stay unfrozen in this environment"
Slimes in the lab. Takes damage in temperatures that a naked body would consider comfortable.
Wintry Faerie
"A tall snow-white feminine figure. She’s quite beautiful, really. Except for her fangs. And Claws. What did you wake up?"
A special narrow room that contains a number of cryogenic chambers, and a terminal at the end. The Terminal allows you to activate the chambers and view a few bits of flavor text. The cryogenic chambers should probably not be smashable or openable by any other means than the terminal. A few of these monsters will be in them, along with some corpses with cool loot in them.
When I go to jump, I generally have to eyeball how far I need to run to make the jump. I’m not sure how best to make this workable ingame, but I think the ‘how far you need to run’ ‘x’ shouldn’t be explicitly known to the player. That, or it’s shown, but it’s made obvious it’s a huge estimate. Maybe jumping becomes a skill and these predictions of ‘runway’ requirement become more accurate with time.
You will have 1, 2, or 3 squares of lead in, leading to you skipping 1, 2, or 3 squares when you jump.
Depending on your strength and weight carried, you may fail a jump and lose one or two squares of distance and fall down at the end (with each square skipped getting making the jump difficult), but an unweighted character with 8 str should have like a 99% chance of making a three square jump. You only really need to worry about failure if you’re carrying a LOT of stuff or getting super weighed down.
Or if the skinny tunnels have a trap just after a turn and prevent you from making a longer jump…
[quote=“GlyphGryph, post:69, topic:2816”]You will have 1, 2, or 3 squares of lead in, leading to you skipping 1, 2, or 3 squares when you jump.
Depending on your strength and weight carried, you may fail a jump and lose one or two squares of distance and fall down at the end (with each square skipped getting making the jump difficult), but an unweighted character with 8 str should have like a 99% chance of making a three square jump. You only really need to worry about failure if you’re carrying a LOT of stuff or getting super weighed down.[/quote]
Reality check.
World-class competitive long-jump results are in the 25 feet range, which corresponds to str/dex 20 or so, zero enumbrance, and perfect condition. Also the runway leading to the jump is somewhere upwards of 150 feet for a long jump of this magnitude. (everything seems to count number of strides without respect to overall distance, so I had to extrapolate between strides and sprinter stride length of ~100") Keep in mind this measurement is also based on sports-like techniques like bringing the feet very far ahead of the center of gravity of the jumper to maximize distance covered at the risk of falling down on the landing, this generally isn’t going to be a tradeoff you’re assumed to make in survival jumping. Finally, the level of skill and practice focused on this one event is astounding, and simple something a survivor isn’t going to be able to replicate.
First thing I notice is that the lead in to distance cleared ratio is 5:1 or so rather than 1:1, distance cleared is more based on speed than jumping strength, and you simply need distance to get up to speed. This ratio may well shift with shorter jumps, the acceleration is very front-loaded. Unfortunately information on such things is hard to come by since people only generally care about the format imposed by the sport, and even then only about the top records. Basically, the maximum lead-in is going to be however many squares it takes for you to reach top sprinting speed, but it should definitely be significantly longer than the jump distance.
I’d expect max achievable distance in a real-world scenario to be 25ft (this is the lower bound of olympic performance, so actually I’d expect it to be far lower, but I don’t want to quibble about it) I’d put this in the ballpark of clearing three tiles, maybe four.
Jumping a single tile should be no big deal for an average (str/dex 8) unencumbered survivor with a moderate run-up (3-4 squares or so), even more so if it’s a “hole” or “gap” or trap of some kind, and not an entire open tile. Fit survivors should be able to manage it while encumbered and with less run-up.
For a fit and unencumbered survivor, clearing two full squares should be achievable with a large run-up (probably around 6-7 squares), so for example rooftop-to-rooftop jumps over alleys should be doable. Similarly very fit survivors should be able to take some gear along for the ride.
Very fit and unencumbered survivors should be able to clear three tiles, yadda yadda, and the absolute most fit survivors would be able to clear 4 tiles unencumbered.
I agree there should be very little variance from one jump to the next, in fact I’d say make it totally deterministic, and additionally give the player reliable feedback on how many tiles they can clear when they jump.
^
Isnt 4 tiles in game something like 8ft?
I mean, the average sedan is something about twelve feet long and our run out of the mill cars are 6 tiles long.
Whenever we are talking tile measurements, “realistic” is not the primary concerns. Those being that we need to be able to work in whole tiles, that we need to clearly telegraph to the player what the result will be and communicate how they can accomplish, that we need sensible behaviour both in cardinal and diagonal directions, that we need behaviour that takes into effect that the player can only easily “see” so far, the mechanical side effects of longer and shorter jump distances in regards to area design, the need to account for cybernetics and mutations likely being to able to increase the effect, etc. and so on.
“reality checks” are way, way down on the list of “things that will be important to making jumping a fun and purposeful addition to the game”.
[quote=“GlyphGryph, post:73, topic:2816”]Whenever we are talking tile measurements, “realistic” is not the primary concerns. Those being that we need to be able to work in whole tiles, that we need to clearly telegraph to the player what the result will be and communicate how they can accomplish, that we need sensible behaviour both in cardinal and diagonal directions, that we need behaviour that takes into effect that the player can only easily “see” so far, the mechanical side effects of longer and shorter jump distances in regards to area design, the need to account for cybernetics and mutations likely being to able to increase the effect, etc. and so on.
“reality checks” are way, way down on the list of “things that will be important to making jumping a fun and purposeful addition to the game”.[/quote]
Well yes, I agree that it is gameplay and not reality what matters. I was mostly pointing this out due to the fact that most houses in town are divided by something along 3-7 tiles and that in my mind, Kevins approach seemed to be very limiting and would have made jumping only useful in very specific situations.
I think an appropriate ratio would be 2:1- for a 4 gap space at low encumberment you need 8-10 spaces of run-up, for example.
A 3-tile alleyway, by your system, would take 15 run-up tiles, which is more than some buildings. Impractical, unfun, and ridiculous.
You’re acting like 25 ft per 150 ft is a good standard. Eventually, after 10 feet, don’t you think they’re already very fast, especially for Olympic runners? As far as I can tell, they accelerate gradually slower before that mark where they make the jump.
By my system it would take 3 tiles of run up to jump a 3 tile wide alleyway.
And that makes much more sense in my opinion
I said there’d probably be some falloff in the ratio in shorter ranges, and if you look at my examples it was more like 2.5:1 or so, a small building roof is about 20 tiles across, which gives enough runway for any achievable jump.
I don’t really have an issue with the absolute values of the proposal, I just object to the very game-y “run three tiles to jump three tiles”. And even more so the seeming lack of differentiation between fit and unfit survivors as far as the distance they can achieve.
And to clarify, you’re proposing that no one can jump further than an average unencumbered survivor?
I’m trying to ground my proposal in reality, but it’s really not that different.
1:1 run:jump ratio vs 3:1 run:jump ratio
1? - 3 tile jump range vs 0 - 4 tile jump range
"typical" range 3 vs “typical” range 1
And… that’s pretty much it. I could be missing something, but I really don’t think it’s all that different, or that my adjustments are super un-fun.
? It looked like there was a guaranteed single square being cleared, but not super clear.
Well, another Realism.Vs.Gameplay debate. I’ve got to side with GlyphGryph here, but a 1:1 ratio is a little too ridiculous for me.
All I know is that if we can jump long distances (5 tiles!) it shouldn’t take a mile of run-up. 2:1 ratio?
Except… where’s the gameplay tradeoff? If the acceleration area is so short that it’s never an issue, you might as well not have one. Likewise if everyone can jump three and only three tiles, there’s little differentiation between fit and unfit characters. Fitter characters can carry more stuff, but can’t jump further.