Safe Mode Off, creep in to zombie infested areas and try to draw them out one at a time, usually end up saying “screw it” at some point and dying when I become surrounded on all sides by a massive horde, reset world and start over with new character. While I don’t go back to reload before a death or something, I DID make my own custom character class for funzies, because I got tired of not being able to carry anything if I didn’t find a backpack right away and it was time-consuming to choose all the traits and stuff that I wanted every time I have to restart. New class starts with a bunch of survivor gear, a couple bionics relevant to my character’s backstory, and a few traits I like to take every time, so all I have to do is adjust stats, name my character, and go. It took a while before I realized there was even a way to reload to before a death, so I just got used to starting over every time.
Hit ! at the end of chargen to save your build as a template.
Haha, yeah, I’ve done that before. Forgot about that. x.x
Was not against turrets. I’m against illogical areas for their placement.
I mean, you mainly seem to be saying that they put the turrets in the wrong places to repel invaders and as a result they keep killing you when you invade. If I wanted to defend a lab with turrets I don’t think I’d leave them all in obvious locations.
Tbf, I think it goes both ways. putting them in both expected (an armoury for example) and unexpected places but at the same time would YOU feel comfortable working in a place with turrets in your quarters and toilets? 
Turrets under someone elses control I might add.
Sure that could be pretty unsettling but these are also labs where they are experimenting on actual zombies and have automated dissector machines all over the place. I assume there was some system to prevent the turrets from attacking researchers so they might actually seem like one of the less dangerous features of the workplace.
I don’t actually have a strong opinion of where the turrets should or shouldn’t be. Procedural generation tends to place things in odd locations so I never really questioned it. Turrets placed in random rooms around the lab are manageable as long as you peek through doors before entering, but it wouldn’t bother me if they were removed or replaced with something else.
Maybe the most amusing solution would be to add lore about it. Like you find memos or emails saying “Does anybody know why security division installed a turret in my office this morning? They told me it’s completely safe but I swear it keeps aiming at me when I turn away.”
Well, we all know how well that worked out
But I actually agree and I’m always for adding a bit more lore to flesh the world out.
“How can anyone use the toilets with that turret watching? the bloody thing is hell on my nerves”
Not only do I not say this. I have no idea why you could misconstrue what my contention is.
Placing turrets in place to guard stuff = logical.
Placing turrets in a hallway bottleneck guarding a high loot area = logical.
Placing roadblocks = logical.
Placing a turret behind a fence in a far corner of the lab complex, guarding nothing and behind a fence you cannot enter short of bashing down the fence or climbing over it. Turret guards literally nothing and shoots you dead 1 tile coming round the corner = wtf??? This is flatly bad design.
Plus random small rooms behind glass doing this same thing is not guarding either. Nobody no matter how paranoid would do this. The turret is a Murder Mcguffin. Which is also unrealistic.
Make manhacks float all throughout the halls = logical.
Make robots running around the halls besides trapped in rooms = logical.
1 computer guarded by a turret is kinda ok…why we would need more than one in the entire lab…makes even less sense than having only 1 that does the same thing.Those turret rooms are far too redundant to make sense and serve out a purpose to some degree for up world map locales in a mission imposible esque sort of room. But…labs could be be better with only 1 of those rooms. Unless the computers in those rooms could perform more than one function at random of course.
I stand by my statement; when the turret killed you it proved that it was an effective place for a turret. The turret was intended to kill intruders and it did. Mission accomplished.
The content of this game is random. Sometimes it doesn’t make sense and sometimes it’s not fair. Death is permanent and often sudden. You can call it bad design or illogical or whatever you want but that’s the kind of game it is. If you want a “well designed” experience you always have the option play a different game where the details of the experience were actually designed by someone.
You also have the option to make a mod or submit a PR or take some other tangible action to “fix” whatever you think is wrong in the game. Maybe once you do the work and people can observe the results they’ll decide to pull it into the main game. Or maybe they won’t.
I see this response as trolling more than constructive. Taking a constructive critique of the game that could use a change to make it better isn’t a bad thing. I see from time to time the same excuse to shut people up when the forum is to point out such aspects and to discuss openly how to make something better.
I’ve made my points. You have not. Either bring up a counter point or stop sniping with semantics please.
You haven’t really made a point so much as you have complained about something that has been in the game for years. Nobody else cares, and dozens of active contributors never bothered to change it because it’s not actually a problem. Procedural content will do weird things. It’s part of the challenge and the appeal of the game. If you try to prevent it from doing “illogical” things you’ll just make the game predictable and therefore boring.
If you think you can make the labs seem more logical without making them too easy or predictable go right ahead. If people like your changes they will get included in the game. If you don’t have the time or skill to do the actual work, start with a new thread in The Drawing Board section and lay out a clear plan for the changes you want to see. If people like your plan they might make it happen.
I save scum largely cause the way Cataclysm is designed makes it a very dull Rogue-Like for me, but a fun RPG/Exploration game. Course, I’ve also never bought into the nonsense about how save-scumming makes any achievements hollow.
Plus crashes have taught me to be a bit paranoid about saves and backups.
And in regards to the Turrets, “Turrets placed in bizarre spots” and “Aims for Realism” only work together if the people in charge of Turret Placement sometimes made monetarily wasteful choices (Like putting a turret in the Janitor’s Closet but not at the front entrance).
I think most of the people said what already could say but, to add my two cents…
As BrokenMirror says, not everyone loves starting from zero again and again. I think the only roguelike I played straight was ADOM, and that was mainly because the mechanics, world and objectives flowed very well towards that goal.
As pointed above (I cannot find the poster, sorry), savescumming is a good way to explore the game and learn the mechanics. With the sparse documentation and the general quirks, it seems to be almost a necessity (of course, you can always play DF style. After all, losing is fun).
On that sense I appreciate that the devs haven’t removed/relegated to cheat menu the ability to quicksave, and save during sleep, even if you have to close the app to avoid having that save deleted. It’s a recognition that not everyone plays the game the same way (along with the mods to disable ants, the simplified nutrition, etc), and that should be ok.
As for the turrets that seem to have monopolized (one would say derrailed) the conversation: Personally I find turrets very annoying, and most of my deaths are related to being careless around one. Should they be nerfed? I don’t think they should. They are very annoying on open spaces but on the other hand they are very easy to hack once you get the control laptop. I have a small 3x3 tank that be piloted using only cameras or just go blind for the last approach so I can get near the turret and hack it, and once disabled you have a high supply of good quality bullets plus a redeployable turret. And with the control laptop, labs are also a walk in the park. Even without the control laptop you can snipe from afar, as they tend to be quite fragile.
On the other hand, I would welcome a redesign that made them more selective. I always hate when enemies on games are able to throw everything at you (I’m looking at you NWN magicians!) but you have to ration yourself because you have to fight three more waves but they don’t. Maybe you could craft a visitor badge (with limited duration, is a visitor badge!) in one of the building top floors to have the turrets not kill you on sight. Or maybe make the turrets warn you to not approach further if you are not wielding a weapon . That would require programming, though, so I don’t see this being implemented soon, unless I stop talking and start programming (and that would mean adding two plusses to my C knowledge) 
Savescumming kills the immersion. Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crisis (one of my favourite games) gives us only one save per each mission. It works great because missions are intense due to the fear of death while it is not likely to lose the progress if a given player uses the save in a right moment. Another example is connected with Hitman series. On ‘professional’ difficulty there is no saving during missions. Players have to be perfect. Missions are long, difficult and VERY intense. Next example is Jagged Alliance series where players are able to save the game all the time (if they did not choose ‘Ironman’ difficulty). Although games are great, the thrill is not present because we can save the game before each shot
Conclusion is simple: running from a wolfpack is terrifying when players know that their death is irreversible. They would not care about this dangerous situation after making the save that they are able to load again
Honestly, without save scumming I probably would’ve been discouraged playing altogether. It’s helped me figure things out slowly and get a feel, rather than starting hardcore off the bat. It paved way for making the hardcore ones I tried more bearable because I got that practice in.
I work fulltime / usually have obligations outside work, having to restart everytime I die would make me less enthusiastic to return to it because its not ideal time-wise for me. 
Which would be a shame because I think this game is real gem, I’d like to balance life, sanity and gaming where I’m able.
I don’t think there’s a hard “correct” way to play it, like if you’re not doing it this way its super wrong; its one of the experiences you can choose. Its so modular to begin with, its going to be up to each individual players’ preferences. I see the thrill and immersion in not save scumming; I can still get that dose a different way, as well.
TL;DR I think its up to the gamer. Experience it in whatever way works for you, you’ll discover what playstyle you enjoy and make choices from there.
I see your point. It is a great idea to use savescumming as a tool to master the game. Humans learn from their mistakes. My idea was different. I have used ‘no monsters’ mod in order to gather necessary knowledge and skills connected with Cataclysm. I encurage beginners to use both savescumming and ‘no monsters’ methods. I think that both ways will reduce beginners’ efforts to cope with basic mechanics
No monster run is a good idea! In the future if I manage to sucker other friends into it, maybe I’ll suggest an Innawoods playthrough. : D
Perhaps as a alternative to closing out your game and save scumming. You folks would find it easier to use the Debug menu and spawn in whatever items you feel you would like to tinker with instead of randomly finding stuff and then try to figure it out.
Assuming it is not solely an object. Game mechanics aside.