Help with new lifting/jack rules

[Michi]

I am trying to get an armored wheel off of a HumVee. I have built one of those cantilever things and mounted it on a folding frame. I get a red lifting equipment trying to take an armored wheel off, Or a strength of 90-something. So, I strip the humvee down to its bare frame, as much as can be removed, and am still getting a red lifting requirement, even though strength requirement has come down to 32.

If the cantilever can’t do it, what can?

I have already opened an issue asking for more info to be given that correlates between lifting requirements and the “jacking quality” currently on the jacks.

[survivornaginata]

cantilever is pretty weak.you need boom crane as far as i recall its name.

[BeerBeer]

This seems buggy to me. One of the requirements for removing an armored wheel is “lifting equipment”. Now, that same requirement also applies to several (if not most) vehicle parts. While the cantilever is nearby, the “lifting equipment” requirement lights up green for part installation but while attempting to remove a wheel, it stays red, which to me means the equipment presence is not registered.

Also note there’s a part called “steel boom” which is also supposedly used for lifting but when I debugged it in, it can’t be installed. It simply doesn’t show up in the vehicle part installation menus, not under any alias it might have, but it can be crafted (at least after debugging “unlock all crafting recipes”)

Some of the things I tried along the way:

• Tried installing cantilever on a separate frame (“vehicle”)
• Tried installing the cantilever on the car’s wheel slot
• Debugged in multiple bottle jacks in hopes of meeting the lifting requirements
• Removed all other parts from the wheel tile thinking “they might be in the way”

Edit 1: No, wait… the “lifting equipment” stays red while trying to install a wheel. So yeah, it probably means there’s just not enough lifting power in the nearby equipment.

Edit 2: As a workaround, you could debug yourself 99 strength (or more) for the duration of wheel change.

[pisskop]

When installing a wheel and axle, it appears you lift the total weight of the vheicle, loot included.

when installing a headlight one must merely lift the part in question into the air.

Im not sure why engines dont weigh more than they do.

[BackwardsomeN]

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark when you cannot remove a wheel from a wrecked multiple vehicle pileup. To my understanding, part of what allows scissor jacks or other tools that allow a driver to replace a flat is that the jack does not handle the entire weight of the vehicle. It only replaces one contact point AND shifts more of the weight on the remaining tires. Being unable to harvest tires from wrecks without being able to lift the entire thing is badly broken. If you do not care about damage to any of the parts of the vehicle, or personal risk (Darwin Awards for everyone!) a cinder block and a breaker bar are going to be more than enough to remove a wheel.

[TheKobold]

That is a good point. Maybe the weight accounted for for changing a tire should be 1/4 or 1/3 of the total weight of the vehicle and its contents.

[Force21]

That is a good point. Maybe the weight accounted for for changing a tire should be 1/4 or 1/3 of the total weight of the vehicle and its contents.

Or 1/(however many tires there are on the vehicle - 1)

[Rezalex]

[quote=“TheKobold, post:6, topic:11800”]That is a good point. Maybe the weight accounted for for changing a tire should be 1/4 or 1/3 of the total weight of the vehicle and its contents.

Or 1/(however many tires there are on the vehicle - 1)[/quote]

That would be exploitable. Car too heavy to do that piece of construction? Throw a bunch of more tires on it and you can do it.

[BeerBeer]

In theory it’s possible to perform the calculation on what kind of lifting force is required no matter what the said CDDA vehicle configuration is. Each tile has parts and each part has a certain mass, so there you have it. We could further assume that each tile is 50x50cm or 70x70cm or whatever, just for the lifting purposes. Makes a real nice math/coding challenge. I suppose the required lifting force would then depend on the spot where the jack is being used (the exact spot at which the vehicle is being lifted), meaning that at certain spots you might be able to lift the vehicle, and at other spots you might not, which might further mean that you might be able to change certain wheels and not others. That, in turn, would require defined minimum lifting heights in order to be able to change a wheel. How high should a vehicle’s wheel section be lifted before it’s eligible for wheel change? 10cm? That would depend on the agreed shock absorber suspension height/length/range, or whatever it’s called. Not a car mechanic here. Going down this line, we might even see different shock absorbers, which might help or hinder wheel change (but also provide better or worse physical shock protection).

On the other hand, if we further explore the “multiple wheels reduce lifting requirements” option, the wheel count weight reduction could be made non-linear, providing (harshly) diminishing returns, maybe even maxing out at 4 or 6 wheels, so that your 48 wheels wouldn’t render the entire vehicle weightless for the lifting purposes.

What really pisses me off is that multiple jacks don’t count for lifting heavier vehicles It’d be the simplest thing ever.

[TheKobold]

[quote=“Force21, post:7, topic:11800”][quote=“TheKobold, post:6, topic:11800”]That is a good point. Maybe the weight accounted for for changing a tire should be 1/4 or 1/3 of the total weight of the vehicle and its contents.

Or 1/(however many tires there are on the vehicle - 1)[/quote]

That would be exploitable. Car too heavy to do that piece of construction? Throw a bunch of more tires on it and you can do it.[/quote]

Wouldn’t you need a jack to put on new tires?

[jcd]

[quote=“Force21, post:7, topic:11800”][quote=“TheKobold, post:6, topic:11800”]That is a good point. Maybe the weight accounted for for changing a tire should be 1/4 or 1/3 of the total weight of the vehicle and its contents.

Or 1/(however many tires there are on the vehicle - 1)[/quote]

That would be exploitable. Car too heavy to do that piece of construction? Throw a bunch of more tires on it and you can do it.[/quote]
Not exploitable that way. Because if you want to remove those tires, you gotta lift as much as you should.
Otoh, if you want to keep the wheels, remember that these affect the vehicle’s characteristics and more is not always better.

[Logrin]

I’m also pretty sure you need to be ADJACENT to the lifting equipment, such as the telescopic cantilever or steel boom. You’ll certainly want to go the way of boom however.

[Michi]

Anyone get the boom to work? I built it, and built a frame, but no install options.

[Logrin]

You install booms like a ram. Meaning nothing else, not even a frame, in that square. Telescopic cantilevers are a little more forgiving with where you stick em’

[BeerBeer]

^Tip of my hat to you, sir. That does the trick. So, uhhh, what’s the weight limit for boom crane?
The file data\json\vehicleparts\engineering.json just reads:
“qualities”: [ [ “LIFT”, 4 ], [ “JACK”, 12 ] ],

[Logrin]

Well, so far it’s lifted MY vehicles…so you should be good. I usually drive around in the equivalent of several tanks stacked atop one another. They’ve slimmed down since cargo dimensions became a thing, but still exceed 17 tonnes for the smaller ones.

[Rezalex]

[quote=“Rezalex, post:8, topic:11800”][quote=“Force21, post:7, topic:11800”][quote=“TheKobold, post:6, topic:11800”]That is a good point. Maybe the weight accounted for for changing a tire should be 1/4 or 1/3 of the total weight of the vehicle and its contents.

Or 1/(however many tires there are on the vehicle - 1)[/quote]

That would be exploitable. Car too heavy to do that piece of construction? Throw a bunch of more tires on it and you can do it.[/quote]
Not exploitable that way. Because if you want to remove those tires, you gotta lift as much as you should.
Otoh, if you want to keep the wheels, remember that these affect the vehicle’s characteristics and more is not always better.[/quote]

Do you need a jack to remove things? I mean, it’d be a looong process but you could remove a bunch of parts to reduce the weight so you could put more tires on and then readd everything I guess. But then you could just put the tire you wanted there to begin with so that doesn’t make sense

[pisskop]

So boom cranes will actually work if installed onto a vehicle or onto a seperate rig?

[DooMJake]

You install a boom crane on a sperate vehicle - a folding frame will do - I use my foldable shopping cart for that (no matter how silly it is to lift my tank with my shopping cart)
Important to note is that you have to stand next to the crane when installing / uninstalling tires - at least I hat a few versions ago

[Michi]

Last I tried, I couldn’t get my boom crane to fold