Guns, too many? Too few?

[GrizzlyAdamz]

[quote=“GlyphGryph, post:174, topic:4531”]They have replaced most of the police, with the remaining police playing a much more limited role (primarily managing the robots).

Also, I would assume that the caseless firearms would actually be the defacto military firearm, rather than antiquated weaponry like the M4a1
and ACR.[/quote]

Heh, quoting you again:

I reckon Rivet would be able to come up with an equivalent alternative which utilizes caseless firearms in the military. She listening in?

-throw it in as a third alternative- simplified/nearfuture/less-nearfuture

–Oh hey missed this
@marduk
Even the glock? Eh, my memory/perception fails me.

Bah, BLR is a lever-action. How many hunting rifles nowadays are lever-action? I fed this site 50 clicks, and the results were 43 bolt-actions, 4 levers & 3 semis. Sure the top two spots were lever, but the volume of the other stuff…

I’m in no shape for durability discussion, so I’ll leave that for tomorrow.

[Binky]

Damaging weapons/durability - This has been discussed at length (there is a whole thread on it I believe, and someone made a patch which was pretty good). I think it came down to a lack of skill causing misfires, jamming and hurting the user being the main thing, with damage to ranged weapons being not favourable (according to a dev, can’t remember who).

However, I really would like to see damage to ranged weapons - they require a lot of maintenance in real life but I’d hate to have it tied to performance. I’d rather that skill was linked to performance, and they degraded (at a very slow amount) with use overtime. A weapon repair kit makes sense, and it could require special gun oil to make one (I know they don’t in real life, but otherwise it’d mean just rags and solvents which would be too trivial).

For the people who are about to say ‘much tedium, more shooting’ - I think it should be over a long period of time, say every 50-100 shots or something. It’d just mean that you can’t say ‘I’ve found the gun I’m going to use for the rest of the game’, which encourages more looting, exploration and the like - always something we want.

[Inadequate]

If you have to implement weapon degradation/maintenance, the weapon state should be clearly visible when looking at the weapon - I don’t think firing and keeping track of jamming/misfires would be a very good way of finding out.

And why shouldn’t weapon repair kits be crafted out of rags and solvent? If someone finds a gun, decides that it’s his favourite gun, and goes to every expense to upkeep it, why should we prevent him from doing so? It’s not like it’s the end of the world if people decide not to try new things. Personally, I’ve always been limited more by ammo than anything, switching around guns to match whatever ammo I have on hand.

[KA101]

PR’d a redistribution. Let me know what you think!

LMOE: focuses on Impressive weaponry, with some solid hunting weapons and some imports.
Police: Cop drops left alone. PD armories are now much more tightly restricted…but I’ve read that departments were procuring the P90 IRL so it and the Five-seveN can spawn there.
homeguns (the basement with beds): Dialed back: no more autoweapons. Added shotguns and hunting rifles, marginal chance for RM109c.
Behind_Counter: Low chances for Rivtech handguns–and like all guns there, they’ll come loaded.

Thinking I might put the antique guns in the Mansion art collection or something. . .

[infectedmochi]

I like it, gun spawn now will be less crazy and more coherent IMO. Also antique guns (flintlocks) in mansion make sense, when we have the museum in they can be spawned there too.

[Binky]

[quote=“Inadequate, post:183, topic:4531”]If you have to implement weapon degradation/maintenance, the weapon state should be clearly visible when looking at the weapon - I don’t think firing and keeping track of jamming/misfires would be a very good way of finding out.

And why shouldn’t weapon repair kits be crafted out of rags and solvent? If someone finds a gun, decides that it’s his favourite gun, and goes to every expense to upkeep it, why should we prevent him from doing so? It’s not like it’s the end of the world if people decide not to try new things. Personally, I’ve always been limited more by ammo than anything, switching around guns to match whatever ammo I have on hand.[/quote]

Agree with the top point.

As for the second point, I think the problem is that if it’s just rags and solvents (two very easy to find items) then it’d be almost pointless to have it as you’d be able to craft it without any consequence or difficulty and therefore render degradation meaningless. I’d prefer to have it so that gun oil is a sort of ‘top level’ resource, which you have to either have good chemistry skills for or find as prized loot. Weapon degradation would take a long time though, so it wouldn’t be something you’d need to constantly think about.

KA101, good work!!!

[DG123]

That would provide a nice use for the crafted chemistry set…

[Marduk]

My idea on the “gun repair resource” instead of hard to craft for some unrealistic reason gun oil, simply make it a complex resource.

Crafting requirements: Mechanics 3, Marksmanship 4

-100x duct tape
-2x scrap metal
-1x superglue
-1x cooking oil or 200x gasoline or 1x ballistic oil
-2x rag
-1x spring

Each of this item is easy to find individually, but finding all of them, especially in quantity, plus tools for the toolkit, will actually take some effort.

[John_Candlebury]

Why would you need ductape however?
And IIRC the springs we have on the game are the “heavy duty ones” aka the ones vehicles use as suspension. As far as the volume and weight indicate, it could as well not be a helical spring

[Dominae]

If you have to implement weapon degradation/maintenance, the weapon state should be clearly visible when looking at the weapon - I don’t think firing and keeping track of jamming/misfires would be a very good way of finding out.

Ever had a Spitter barf on a pile of zombies you’ve been killing when there is a gun in the stack? Weapons degrade in there (at least the text says so, they’ll become “damaged Glock 19” and the like). Having that type of obvious-fatigue on the gun just like clothing gets torn, shredded, etc would give straight clues that you need to fix your firearm. Wouldn’t want them to just vanish like clothing items do when they fall apart tho, obviously, but reaching a total “is unrepairable” state after a long while of wear-and-tear would work?

[quote=“Marduk, post:188, topic:4531”]My idea on the “gun repair resource” instead of hard to craft for some unrealistic reason gun oil, simply make it a complex resource.

Crafting requirements: Mechanics 3, Marksmanship 4

-100x duct tape
-2x scrap metal
-1x superglue
-1x cooking oil or 200x gasoline or 1x ballistic oil
-2x rag
-1x spring

Each of this item is easy to find individually, but finding all of them, especially in quantity, plus tools for the toolkit, will actually take some effort.[/quote]

I like it, but oh please not duct tape … that stuff is SO hard for me to find with the spawn rates turned down. LOL … plus I’m not too sure it makes sense, duct-taping my gun back together.

Hell, add “a toothbrush” to bathroom spawns and require that even, but please not precious, precious duct tape. I already need a pallet of it to make armor with

[Inadequate]

Nowadays I find it’s easier just to turn surplus bleach into superglue, and turn that superglue into duct tape, than it is to search for duct tape right off the bat. If you have an ant’s nest near I guess you could repeatedly harvest ant eggs too, although I never quite got the logic behind that one.

[Dominae]

Nowadays I find it’s easier just to turn surplus bleach into superglue, and turn that superglue into duct tape, than it is to search for duct tape right off the bat. If you have an ant’s nest near I guess you could repeatedly harvest ant eggs too, although I never quite got the logic behind that one.

Yeah that is the route I end up taking. Bleach->Superglue->Duct Tape.

Really, when you look at it, SO MUCH of the crafting material needs for things can be broken down from other things and recombined into what you want. That is neat, and all, but it makes scavenging for items often not needed. I find I never need “the right item”, just “a bunch of random crap” that exists everywhere to make what I want.

[Inadequate]

Well, it’s a matter of opinion. Personally, I like having as many items as possible be craftable from baseline materials. There’s always certain high-tier materials like kevlar, or stuff that is far easier to find than to create from raw materials, like bleach, which technically could be made with enough charcoal, I think. In fact it’s quite annoying when I can’t find the one or two electronic items that I can’t make with the stuff I already have. If the rest can be made, why not those?

Plus, nowadays most high-tier recipes are being shifted to books. Although I have my own issues with that, you can’t deny it extends the value of scavenging.