Gun rebalance

[Dlightfull]

I barely use any guns, but i always stockpile lots of guns and ammo, just in case. So i’ve noticed that the damage of some ammo has increased dramatically, but the energy weapons, in comparison, remained as weak as before, which is somehow strange. I always thought that a fusion blaster or a laser rifle should be at least as damaging as the best projectile weapons.

What do you think, should laser and fusion weapons have their damage increased?

[GreatTuna]

[quote=“Dlightfull, post:1, topic:10200”]I barely use any guns, but i always stockpile lots of guns and ammo, just in case. So i’ve noticed that the damage of some ammo has increased dramatically, but the energy weapons, in comparison, remained as weak as before, which is somehow strange. I always thought that a fusion blaster or a laser rifle should be at least as damaging as the best projectile weapons.

What do you think, should laser and fusion weapons have their damage increased?[/quote]

No, fusion weapons are already borderline OP (especially fusion blaster rifle, it makes boom, ignites terrain, can three-shot a hulk and uses only 40 4 units of bionic energy), and laser weapons are closing by (especially A7). Just hook them up to and UPS bionic and you’ll see.

[ShinQuickMan]

A7 in particular is by far the most efficient vehicle defense weapon in the game. Even tankbots are no match to it if you play your cards right. Of course, it’s incredibly rare, so don’t count on finding one without going into a lot of lab raids first.

Now if only the cybernetically-implanted fusion blaster were as strong and efficient as the rifle equivalent…

[kevin.granade]

The thing about laser weapons is you can just draw a bead on something and fire continuously until it does and/or catches on fire, so the DPS is pretty high (unless they’re armored, which is (intentionally) a weakness of lasers).

[Coolthulhu]

Using energy weapons is free. I don’t think they should get a buff until CBM energy capacity gets a giant nerf.

[Dlightfull]

Using energy weapons is free. I don’t think they should get a buff until CBM energy capacity gets a giant nerf.

another nerf? Please don’t nerf my CBMs.

[ShinQuickMan]

I’d be cool with an upper limit of 20 maximum Power Storage MK IIs, or even 5-10 for a more sane cap.

[GreatTuna]

I’d be cool with an upper limit of 20 maximum Power Storage MK IIs, or even 5-10 for a more sane cap.

It will work against certain bionics like time dilation or cloaking system, but will do almost nothing to nerf the grand fusion blaster rifle + UPS-bionic combo.
Please, nerf it. Make it consume the same amount of energy as hand-held UPS. Spending 4 energy to shoot is no big deal, but 40? It will make you think at least once.

[Dlightfull]

[quote=“ShinQuickMan, post:7, topic:10200”]I’d be cool with an upper limit of 20 maximum Power Storage MK IIs, or even 5-10 for a more sane cap.

It will work against certain bionics like time dilation or cloaking system, but will do almost nothing to nerf the grand fusion blaster rifle + UPS-bionic combo.
Please, nerf it. Make it consume the same amount of energy as hand-held UPS. Spending 4 energy to shoot is no big deal, but 40? It will make you think at least once.[/quote]

what makes you all think the blaster rifle is unbalanced? It can’t be used safely in enclosed areas, and even outside, in open areas, it puts everything around you on fire, making it unsafe again, it also destroys loot. I have it and i use the laser rifle instead, i find it better (it also shoots just fine through glass, which is really cool and helpful in labs)

[GreatTuna]

what makes you all think the blaster rifle is unbalanced?

The fact that it’s only 4 bionic energy for a damaging-explosive weapon which also acts as a flamethrower.
To note: the actual mini-flamethrower bionic costs 75 units and is close to useless.

It can’t be used safely in enclosed areas,

It becomes mostly safe at 4+ tiles range. And I used it to clear the vaults, which are absolutely enclosed, so I don’t know why do you think it’s unsafe.

it puts everything around you on fire

Oh no, now it’ll kill my enemies even better! How terrible. /s
Seriously, it’s a good thing. A flamethrower which can fire very far almost for free. It’s awesome.

it also destroys loot

I’ll totally miss that shirt from a zombie, or blob from a blob, or… rag from a hulk? /s
Seriously, there’s little I can loot when I get to the point of crafting fusion blaster rifle.

I have it and i use the laser rifle instead

Okay,
Spending 20 energy to fire a burst is no big deal, but 200? It will make you think at least twice.

it also shoots just fine through glass

Why don’t you report it? It looks like a bug.

[ShinQuickMan]

Then the real problem is not power capacity, but with the blaster rifle itself. Seriously, 4 power is just far too small an amount and doesn’t really make much sense to begin with; that’s less power than it takes to boil water with a UPS converted hotplate, and less than a tenth of what it takes to fire the outright inferior implanted version of the weapon. I’m otherwise ok with its strength at the moment.

[Coolthulhu]

Please, nerf it. Make it consume the same amount of energy as hand-held UPS.

This sounds good to me. In vast majority of cases, CBM energy is worth less, not more, than itemized batteries. And in zombie-rich areas, UPS CBMs are more common than standalone UPSes.

[Dlightfull]

Please nerf everything to the bone. Let us die at the first glance of a zombie at us :(.

It’s fucking late game content. I’m supposed to be a mean motherfucking zombie killing machine after tens of days of training and looting and murdering and whatnot.

[GreatTuna]

Please nerf everything to the bone.

I know you are exaggerating now [sup][sup][sup]and whining too[/sup][/sup][/sup], but I still agree with that.
Zombies could get increased damage (because they can be stopped by pretty much every armor now), and some weapons could use a nerf (I’m looking at you, katana).
The game now is quite unbalanced mess, and you appear to not want to balance what isn’t balanced.

I’m supposed to be a mean motherfucking zombie killing machine after tens of days of training and looting and murdering and whatnot.

No, you’re not. Okay, maybe after gaining certain amount of bionics, but even after that, you’re still a human. And human has limits, and I doubt these limits stretch to the ability to dispatch hordes of enemies without taking a sweat.

Even if I stand aside from realism and turn to gameplay perspective, I’ll find that one-shotting zombies isn’t in any way fun. Tactical planning, careful approach, risks of the early- and mid-game are much more fun to me than boring late- and end-game “killing everything with anything”. Only thing that remains is building of base, making your deathcar, and finally dying of boredom.
With fusion blaster rifle as is I can just make my “f” key stuck and go make a tea, or read a book, or something else, to clear a zone. Is it fun? It isn’t.
With katana I can hit once to kill. Is it fun? It isn’t.

Now, on to “late game content” thesis.
FTK-93 fusion rifle also makes boom, also ignites terrain, and also deals damage, and also is late-game. Why do you think noone’s complaining about that? Because ammo is limited AND rare.
A7 laser rifle is also late-game content, but nobody’s complaining about it. Why? Because it’s weak and power consumption is high (you can empty the UPS in five bursts).
Fusion blaster rifle has no drawbacks. Get bionic, get 2x4, mess with it a little, and you get infinite explosive and infinite flamethrower in one rifle.

Oh yeah, and you still didn’t say why exactly FBR shouldn’t be nerfed. Is there any reason beside “baaaw i want my toy”? [sup]i’m getting very bitter [sup]sorry[/sup][/sup]

[Dlightfull]

i’m afraid to comment anymore, because you’ll want to nerf something else too.

[quote=“GreatTuna, post:14, topic:10200”][
With katana I can hit once to kill. Is it fun? It isn’t.[/quote]

Oh, it’s very fulfilling and fun, i assure you (for me that is). This is why i play games like this, i like to build overpowered chars. I don’t know why, i just like to do that. I am able to do impressive amount of grind and other boring stuff just for they joy of one shooting stuff without any risk of repercussion (my current char only needs a power armor to accomplish that, having all the best bionics, guns and martial arts).

So nerfing everything takes joy away from me. If i am late game and i still have to carefully plan every time i want to cut a zed, then the game loses all the interest for me. That’s why i hate games with level scaling (remember TES:Oblivion?).

My logic is simple. I invest time and effort into building a char and i want my efforts and time to be remunerated. If you don’t like a particular gun, don’t use it. Yes it’s powerful, yes it’s cheap to use, i like it that way and, to be honest, i rarely use it. It’s completely modded, but staying in my vehicle, since it’s not particularly effective and not really subtle. Katana coupled with niten is a lot more fun, as is the weaker (but not expensive as you say, as cheap as the blaster rifle actually) A7 laser rifle. At least they don’t deafen me.

[Valpo]

The ammount of bionik energy one can hoild at max should be reduced from infinity to a certain ammount >.>.
the way we gain bionik energy needs to be adjusted. I am talkin specificly abou eating trees for energy.
The various energy weapons need to be balanced against eachother better.
Powerfull Weapons shouldn t be fuelable through bionik energy directly at all. If at all we should need like a capacitor cbm to prestore bionik power in a weapon charge which can be expended later in a powerfull shot.

[Dlightfull]

What about the H&K railgun and 12mm slugs? The railgun itself is ok, but the slugs are very low on damage and extremely rare.

I always thought that railguns are the most powerful weapons, but apparently not in cataclysm.

[Shopkeeper]

The H&K G80 Railgun gives each 12mm round an inherent damage value of 45. The round itself contributes an extra 5 damage and 40 armor piercing potential. That’s while only causing 5 noise, which means it’s basically a totally silent anti-materiel rifle. Fully tricked out and in the hands of a skilled marksman the thing is a beast of epic proportions. Sadly I’ve only ever found roughly a dozen rounds for it.

[Dlightfull]

The H&K G80 Railgun gives each 12mm round an inherent damage value of 45. The round itself contributes an extra 5 damage and 40 armor piercing potential. That’s while only causing 5 noise, which means it’s basically a totally silent anti-materiel rifle. Fully tricked out and in the hands of a skilled marksman the thing is a beast of epic proportions. Sadly I’ve only ever found roughly a dozen rounds for it.

It’s still low on damage the slug should give some 15 more damage and it should be craftable, i see no reason why it’s not, it should be a fairly easy craft too, imho.

By the way, how does armor piercing work in CDDA?

[Nathan]

Then the real problem is not power capacity, but with the blaster rifle itself. Seriously, 4 power is just far too small an amount and doesn't really make much sense to begin with; that's less power than it takes to boil water with a UPS converted hotplate, and less than a tenth of what it takes to fire the outright inferior implanted version of the weapon. I'm otherwise ok with its strength at the moment.

Just comparing the costs to the other fusion weapons, one requires plutonium to fire, another requires hydrogen, the charge rifle takes a while to spin up, and the fusion blaster rifle is pretty much free. Its been a while since I've done anything at all with the railgun, is ammo more common for it now?