Goodbye to OP shopping carts

(I copied your suggestions to the github issue and replied there, this is a copy if my replies)

The fact that monsters don’t currently board vehicles and move along with them is a major problem that needs to be fixed regardless of this issue.

Zombies randomly smashing at vehicles instead of boarding them is reasonable, but it doesn’t fix the underlying issue.

Having zombies grab and shove vehicles would certainly add to the chaos, not totally sure if it helps reduce the immediate problem. What would help more is if the zombies pulled the vehicle away from the player instead of pushing it.

We could certainly add a grab cost, but it would be too trivial to matter. We don’t generally base action durations on balance concerns, and i don’t think we want to start here.

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We’re talking about grabbing any vehicle, possibly without any handles at all.

@mark Pfft, my lumberjack is super buff! He can probably hold his axe in one hand and grab the shopping cart in the other and chop the horde to bits as far as realism is concerned. This could be a problem for anyone wimpy, but not for Axle Wood! :sunglasses:

Please don’t @ people without a good reason. By default, it emails them.

Really? I didn’t know that, I thought it simply made it a little more obvious or something…

I really do think that, instead of making carts un-boardable, something else should be done - Zombies smashing them, potentially knocking them over (which might be a thing for only vehicles that are only one square wide in any dimension,) or knocking them aside, or simply damaging them.

I mean, using a shopping cart as a thing to interpose between yourself and a hostile is certainly a valid strategy; a shopping cart, especially laden, makes a good mobile barricade, but that barricade should be something a target should try to go around or tip over, rather than (usually) climbing atop.

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To point out, a simple shopping cart could be a fairly useful defense against zombies if the conditions are right: -An empty one (at least in my experience) isn’t to heavy, and you would be able to just swing it around in front of you with one hand and the other hand just has a simple pointy stick or something.
-In the event that the shopping cart was laden with many heavy things inside, you could possibly dump them out onto the zombie and knock it over so you can stab it repeatedly.
-Duct tape and/or rope holding together a massive row of shopping carts filled with rocks and other heavy objects could act as a simple, albeit useful, fence around your house, since they’ll hold each other together and not easily fall down, but still help slow down zombies.
-Grab a shopping cart, put heavy and pointy objects in it, roll it down the hill to see the chaos. :smiling_imp:
-Move the shopping cart away as they lunge for it and they fall into a strategically placed spike pit
-While it’d be risky simply due to the chance of you falling off, you could probably get some speed, get on top of the shopping cart (like on the gif at the top), grab your machinegun and fire away!:sunglasses:
-Of course, while the zombie tries to shove the shopping cart out of the way, you slam it right into its gut and down to the floor! Then kill WITH FIRE! :fire:

-In short, this is the apocalypse, in times like these you need to make everything a weapon or defense, even just a simple shopping cart. All you need to do is figure out how :face_with_raised_eyebrow: You see, while I understand, it is in no way ‘needed’ to change how shopping carts function. I’ve never actually used the shopping cart tactic(s) that brought up this conversation, and even if it doesn’t change, I’ll probably never use it still.
-For me, I don’t really care what happens, I just want to point out the truth.

I think increasing zombie intelligence is the way to go. I’m not sure if they’re supposed to have an animal level of intelligence(an animal that doesn’t need to eat or reproduce), however if they’re smart enough(or use their instincts) to identify friend-foe, walk around and attack(instead of just laying on the ground flailing their arms and legs) they should be smart enough to walk around an obstacle. Think of it like this, if you have a rat in a cage and a piece of cheese and a partial barricade, a rat will always go around instead of climbing it. If you have a full barricade then it will try to climb it or chew through it. I agree that a cart should be useless as a defence in the open, however i’d like to have a tactical option to use it to slow down enemies in a doorway or any 1 tile passage. If that’s overpowered then you should also nerf the Window Dragon kung-fu, because how’s that different.

I assume your lumberjack is swinging a hatchet and not a full sized axe. Otherwise you’re going to be off balance with every swing.

he has 17 or 18 strength, in realism terms it might be hard not to be off balance with every swing, even if it’s just his bare fists. But he also has deft so that helps too, WAAAAAAAGH! It is a wood axe BTW, but he is basically a short version of the Hulk, so it’s fine! But why would it be a hatchet? Axle is a proper manly lumber jack, you can’t use one of those little things for that!

What if grabbing an object increased arm encumbrance? It would make sense, and it would put penalties on players using objects as a mobile buffer

-That would make some sense, would would be a practically useless function without giving the player at least a small amount of time to grab the handle. I could imagine it as you have lots of encumbrance to simulate the fact that one of your arms is being used to grab the cart and the other to fight with.

NPC “retreat” command seems like a no-brainer. Probably something we have all had use for in the past as well.

@mark you can turn off email notifications for when someone mentions your name with an @ before it.