Getting too lucky

[Valpo]

[quote=“KA101, post:17, topic:9214”]We don’t expressly condemn quit-without-saving; in fact, I (for one) engaged in the practice back when I played regularly. Handy way to experiment, and saved frustration when RNG decided that things weren’t gonna work out.

We do so condemn using the debug menu.

So I can understand why folks reroll. This is also why I didn’t care for the chargen points/caps options getting stuck under a “debug” tab in the options menu: though we don’t consider that per se cheating, folks much prefer to find exploits in the chargen rather than just give themselves more points or higher caps.[/quote]

I do not draw a line between cheating directly and exploiting. To me its exactly the same thing.

Savescum to avoid death for the win. I have zero use for the roguelike “play the early game four billion times because dying is fun amirite” ethos. You play a game, you die, you restore from save. It’s good enough for every other kind of RPG. Savescumming stuff like Granades is just ridiculous though. You very quickly become so godlike that it’s just silly. I at least want to be ABLE to go “Aw crap!” and have to reload.

Theres enough situations in which you die at a point where getting there again would be pure tedium hence loading your save game after death makes sense .

I agree with everything here except that dieing can indeed be fun as long as your still learning and discovering new things. If you die On a part you already mastered due to rng or w/e its okay to reload.

[Coolthulhu]

I do not draw a line between cheating directly and exploiting. To me its exactly the same thing.

Exploiting isn’t clearly defined, cheating can be.
At a higher level of play, “just playing” and “exploiting” are far closer than “exploiting” and “cheating”.

Take speedruns (playthroughs of games aiming for the shortest time possible without cheating) for example.
A speedrun without exploits is uncommon. A speedrun with cheats will not be accepted as a speedrun.
There are “glitchless” speedruns, but for those everyone has to agree what does count as a glitch and what doesn’t.

In case of DDA:
Was using magnet CBM to smash metal walls with road rollers an exploit or not? Everything worked as intended, it’s just that the numbers got huge.
The above was considered an exploit and got fixed, but what about using an anvil to do it after the nerf?
Is leading zeds into cars an exploit or not? Their AI makes them bash the car even though there’s an obvious way around.
Is dragging a shopping cart behind self to make zombies step onto it and waste moves an exploit?
Is grinding archery with a blowgun an exploit? Apparently it happens really fast at the moment, due to quirks in the new XP system.
What about burning shrubs and leading zeds there? Leaving fire on stove outside reality bubble so that it doesn’t need fuel? Wearing 2 bindles, 2 shopping bags, 2 briefcases and 2 straw baskets just because you don’t care about hand encumbrance?

The more you think about what an exploit is, the more obvious the difference between exploiting and cheating becomes.

[Valpo]

You may simply cheat without knowing it. Its still cheating . If I do not know that i am exploiting an error i am still doing it. I see no differense in the thing itself . Only in your intentions. The fact that there are few glitchelss speedruns is a tragedy that i mourne. I like seeing the ones with glitches but i also wanna see some that do not use them at all.

the moment you start using designflaws to your advantage you are starting to cheat(although your doing it in a clever way).

I consider pretty much everything you listed as cheating except maybe the thing with the z. They may just be that retarded.

An exploit is to me a way of cheating that doesn t use cheatcodes /debug menu. Thats the destinction .

So yes they are different. But i didn t consider this relevant to what i was saying.