(EXP 7300) - Mutation encumbrance is broken

It seems mutation encumbrance by encumbrance_always is totally broke (no effect in character screen). This is with experimental 7300 vanilla, no mods.

Right now the biggest problem with the game however are the abysmal overmap settings, whoever doesn’t see any problem with the below picture probably shouldn’t be in charge of overmap_specials.json. It should go without saying it’s really bad every player has to individually tweak said file to have a playable game to be honest, or resort to using mods like PK rebalance.


Please be more specific in what’s wrong with the Overmap settings, please. Just linking a picture and having people infer answers from it is in no way productive.

I’ve never been in a secret military lab conducting genetic research protected by automated turrets, nor an actual mansion. Yet both are more common than gas stations in a city (easier to find too).

Current default settings spawn a stupendous amount of 0-60 labs and 0-24 mansions per overmap. A size 4 small-medium city in dda spawns like ~30 buildings. When you spawn 60 labs on the overmap, that’s equivalent to having a secret underground lab for every building in 2x cities (which would be hundreds upon hundreds of labs in real life).

Realism aside, it’s just horrible gameplay due to excess repetition. Who wants to explore 10 labs followed by 7 mansions in a row? Both specials contain mid/endgame gear and the player literally can’t go in any direction without burnout-level inducing spam of labs and mansions. This in turn forces the player to nuke his drop rate to 0.05 or alter overmap_specials.json to maintain any kind challenge or fun.

Good settings would be 0-4 labs outside cities without road connection (they’re secret labs after all), 0-2 labs within 0-1 distance of a size 7-9+ city, and every mansion reduced to 0-1 chance and further segregated by city size to prevent one city spawning 5x mansions.

The mainline branch desperately needs to take some influence from mods like overmap rebalancing and pk rebalance.

Another thing that would be nice to see are combination specials, they take minimal effort to make but add so much.

Instead of having 0-6 labs spawn on the countyside, you could have 0-3 random labs AND

  • 0-1 lab that spawns only in swamp next to or very close to a fungal bloom
  • 0-1 lab that’s far away from a city next to a road but with a military outpost on the other side
  • 0-1 lab that’s in the middle of a forest a bit away from a front shantytown with a subway station
  • and so on…

Stuff like that is awesome to find but obviously if you have to personally put it in the json as a new player it takes away from the experience.

Interesting, somebody else was complaining that his/her overmap had to few labs. Could you provide more data on your settings? (mods used, world settings etc). See this: https://www.reddit.com/r/cataclysmdda/comments/8044ez/weekly_questions_thread_february_25_2018/duu99vg/ Also see: https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/23072

It’s possible the person complaining was using too large city spacing (anything above 5 has possibility of creating overmaps that are empty wastelands devoid of all specials). Personally I always use size 6-9 with spacing of 5.

Another thing is people don’t understand probability. With 0-60 labs you could easily create 6 overmaps without labs no problem. Extremes can and will happen.

Bump for broken morale @Coolthulhu

I have to agree with technical. The overmap special settings are in a bad state. But how to fix it to make it feel balanced for all combinations of city size/distanze?

Well, since we’re on the topic of overmap balance, I think the ratio of houses to commercial buildings might be off. I’m seeing a lot of this;

As you see, this is a medium size town but only has 6 urban houses, 3 high density housing and a couple sub-rural. In any real life town or city you’re always going to have more houses and apartments than everything else.

There’s also an issue where sometimes even large cities won’t have something like a bank, which even most towns should have.

edit: here is a town with no bank or gas station, and it’s completely surrounded by labs;

e2: both of these images are from the same world, I used only default map gen parameters.

(ESC - Active World Mods), isn’t it?


Also it seems mutation encumbrance by encumbrance_always is totally broke (no effect in character screen). This is with 7230 vanilla no mods.

Yeah, that’s from the beta Urban Development mod. Definitely not balanced.

I exploded roughly 4 overmap tiles and have found all of 1 lab and 1 bunker. I did find like 6 mansions, though. Default worldgen settings.

I saw some discussion about the random item generation being inconsisten between worlds. One world would generate lots of certain items and very few of other items while another world would generate lots of some other item and not many others.

If there is something wrong on how the random things are randomized the item problem could be same as the map problem. So one world is filled with labs while another one has barely any labs.

I don’t have any labs, not a single one. The save file is over 100 MB already.

Lots of small 4-bulding towns. Lots of stupid mushrooms. Lots of empty areas. No labs. So lonely.

You’re probably using unfixed urban development (@git really?) combined with other mods with unmandatory mandatory spawns, possibly combined with too high city spacing. That’s the only way I can stop lab spam.

You should post your modlist and world settings.

Sure. Here you go.

By the way, can I change the settings safely on the go? If I wanted newly spawned cities to be larger, for example.

You could make a test world with the same modlist and world settings but without the mining mod, and reveal about 10 overmaps with debug menu to see if it’s the culprit.

Yes, that seemed to help. A lab found in a starting map and a couple more in the second part of the overmap. Thank you! How can I deal with that in my existing world?