Here’s a place to discuss, opine, and generally talk about the design outline. If you’ve got any questions or comments, feel free to ask and/or opine here.
(Nothing in here alters the design outline, until and unless we add it to the outline.)
[Edited to add link-KA101]
Its good to know this is finally online.
After a quick read think a valid point could be made to permit the existence of some centralized US government along with a still somewhat functioning FEMA and army, even if its only to permit the existence the classic zombie movie plot of running to the still functioning evac zones before they fall; which I think would be great thing to have in game either as a possible “victory” condition for the normal game or as the “victory” condition of either an independent scenario or of the rush to the west scenario.
I think its mentioned that the army has almost completely pulled of from New englan and is fortifying the west coast, but perhaps if you manage to get to the Logan International Airport in time you may catch the last plane to “safety”, or perhaps you can still catch a boat to Newfoundland…
Attention: read “victory” as you are dropped a year later as zombies finally overwhelm your “safe community” located somewhere in the Alaskan wilderness, not as the game ended, you won and the credits play.
Keep in mind it’s also fully possible that the reports you’ve been hearing that the government is still working are all just hearsay, with no real truth behind them.
That said I’m pretty opposed to having any sort of straight out “win” condition. Cataclysm has been, and in my opinion should remain, a survival type rouge like as opposed to a more directed “race to the airport” style one.
[quote=“i2amroy, post:3, topic:5277”]Keep in mind it’s also fully possible that the reports you’ve been hearing that the government is still working are all just hearsay, with no real truth behind them.
That said I’m pretty opposed to having any sort of straight out “win” condition. Cataclysm has been, and in my opinion should remain, a survival type rouge like as opposed to a more directed “race to the airport” style one.[/quote]Isn’t the theme of every zombie movie based on the main characters getting killed trying to find government protection?
[quote=“HunterAlpha1, post:4, topic:5277”][quote=“i2amroy, post:3, topic:5277”]Keep in mind it’s also fully possible that the reports you’ve been hearing that the government is still working are all just hearsay, with no real truth behind them.
That said I’m pretty opposed to having any sort of straight out “win” condition. Cataclysm has been, and in my opinion should remain, a survival type rouge like as opposed to a more directed “race to the airport” style one.[/quote]Isn’t the theme of every zombie movie based on the main characters getting killed trying to find government protection?[/quote]
Yeah, but catadda isn’t based on a zombie movie at all.
I really, really hate the idea of a victory condition, although a ‘eradicate the goo/fungaloids/nethers’ style end mission, which leaves the world practically harmless would be great, especially if/when some really nifty faction based stuff comes along. Really though, much like DF there isn’t a need for an actual end game, although end-game content certainly is interesting.
As I said in the other topic, I think the outline is fantastic.
Yeah placing win conditions on the normal game is probably a no go. Still I think it that running to the evac zones would make for a very fun scenario.
I do like the idea of a race against the clock as a separate game mode or a triggered event. However it’s sort of difficult with RL/turn based games, as it’d get tedious making every turn count, and many things could get in your way (having to sleep/eat) which would just be plain annoying.
Still, I think the design document in general lends itself to some interesting end game opportunities, especially considering that crafting everything is a no.
Yeah, we have Defend (the Generator!) mode so I imagine a “reach point P by time T” isn’t out of the question. It would, however, be a separate mode and not the main idea.
Pretty much because DDA is at base an open-ended game, where not every turn has to matter and there’s no one optimal path.
(When I learned that people made bots to play Nethack, that pretty much killed any enthusiasm I had for the game. Bots = optimized play, IME.)
I like the idea of missions that make the game safer for the players. But I’m in agreement with the design doc that the cataclysm itself is irreparable. Sure, you can take out a fungal spire and the spores won’t spread in that region for a while. Maybe upwards of a year or so. But eventually, they will come back, and you lack the resources as a single person to take them all on.
Or maybe it’s a case of “pick your poison”. Do you nuke the creepy portal, cutting off the supply of shoggoths and burning eyes? Because if you do, the triffids in that area are gonna have an easier time growing their new crop of vinebeasts. Do you infiltrate and sabotage the robot factory? Well, guess there’s no warbots keeping the goo in check anymore; expect to see some more advanced zombies coming soon.
Honestly I would love to see the factions get implemented/further developed and the trading system refined a bit more, I think it would be really satisfactory to loot say like a lab or something to sell supplies to a particular faction. I just really love the interactions with NPCs . Also first post on the forums after lurking around for the past year.
After reading it through again, I would ask that a bit more clarity be put into the realism/sci-fi bit, as it’s a bit jarring/difficult to know what is actually meant by this bit:
[spoiler]…It should be just as possible to lead a slow and careful life in harmony with nature outside the cities as it is to make crazy laser-slinging assaults on superscience labs.
Reality-based: At its core, DDA is based in the real world. One that has been changed in extreme ways, but still very much the real world as we know it. The things in the game that exist in the real world should act like their real-world counterparts; things that are extrapolated from real-world things should hold true to the real-world principles involved, and things that do not exist in the real world are free to act in whatever internally consistent way they want.[/spoiler]
There’s two issues with this; firstly the ‘laser-slinging assualts on superscience labs’ is followed by the heading ‘reality-based’ - I know this is very much just an expressive way of ‘lots of shooting and violence’, but at the same time it’s kinda jarring.
Secondly, I think the Reality-based section could do with a bit more of a fleshing out with what is ok and what isn’t (as could the whole design document). I know we don’t want to box people in creativity wise, but when we have in game teleporters (which are craftable to an extent), it’s difficult to match that up with something being reality based (unless they’re getting taken out).
I’d suggest to just make it clearer that there may be some ‘superscience items’ but they’re extremely rare and not something the player can build/do much with other than the intended function.
TL;DR: I realise this is implied by the document as a whole, but I think it’s worth drawing the line more clearly over what is allowed and what isn’t, even if it’s just a list of no-go areas.
I’ll see what I can do about making that clearer. you definitely got the gist of it, which is that while super-science things exist, they aren’t something the player can make, repair, etc (though cobbling them into contraptions is highly encouraged).
Another aspect of it is a rebuttal to, “it’s the future, so things work better”. We want fantastical things in the game, but making them too common and accessable robs them of their special-ness.
[quote=“ArgusTheCat, post:9, topic:5277”]I like the idea of missions that make the game safer for the players. But I’m in agreement with the design doc that the cataclysm itself is irreparable. Sure, you can take out a fungal spire and the spores won’t spread in that region for a while. Maybe upwards of a year or so. But eventually, they will come back, and you lack the resources as a single person to take them all on.
Or maybe it’s a case of “pick your poison”. Do you nuke the creepy portal, cutting off the supply of shoggoths and burning eyes? Because if you do, the triffids in that area are gonna have an easier time growing their new crop of vinebeasts. Do you infiltrate and sabotage the robot factory? Well, guess there’s no warbots keeping the goo in check anymore; expect to see some more advanced zombies coming soon.[/quote]
You’ve got the idea. “Missions” in this sense would be a player-defined thing: the fungal bloom will overrun the region if left unchecked, so we’re gonna go blast & torch it. If there’s another “faction”, be it triffid, Goo, (bots)*, or humans, then yeah, that faction’s not gonna have to fight the fungus, so that frees up their resources, but there’s nothing preventing you from targeting them as well. (Or celebrating with them, depending on your perspective.)
*Currently the bots are the least-developed of any major critter-type. NPCs are marginally in front of 'em because we have folks targeting NPC work. 
The bloom itself might need support from some other location to regrow, incidentally. Perhaps you might check underneath the surface too?
Victory is surviving one more day.
…and maybe finding a frigging Katana.
[quote=“Gideon, post:14, topic:5277”]Victory is surviving one more day.
…and maybe finding a frigging Katana.[/quote]
You’ll need to be playing with the Medieval Weapons pack enabled, AFAIK; if it wasn’t present in the worldgen menu then Katanas are still in your mainline. Either way, try pawnshops, gang fights, and Mansions.
Yeah, I know. I just seem to have terrible luck finding it.
I found a katana in an upper class suburban house in 0.A, medieval weapons pack disabled.
This document repeats the “high-end items are impossible to replicate artisan-style” theme on every page. Wouldn’t the massive science labs have the equipment to make at least some of this stuff? Is all of the science equipment irreparable? New England (Mass) is a place with a lot of biotech companies so surely there must be a partially automated bionics factory somewhere in the game world.
Depends and would need power, time, skill, and high-tech machinery/ingredients. Frankly the CVD machine (1/7 Lab finale) is rather a stretch and may get revisited, but that’s about the extent of high-end manufacturing equipment.
Note that I don’t think it mentions being opposed to the player acquiring stuff through industrial processes.
I remember there being a proposal for a robot-based “factory” that allowed the player to essentially get a huge amount of some random good by re-activating the factory, which would then make it, and a skilled “computer”-user could change the settings to make something else instead, conceivably anything they have the plans for on a USB.
I think that’s a great idea, factory might not last forever before breaking down but gives a use for computer-skill characters and allows another character to make 2,000 flashlights in addition to the 2,000 already in the factory store-room because why the hell not, right? 
But it still wouldn’t be the sort of “artisan crafting” the doc refers to, and would have to be it’s own limited system is the key.