I’m definitely getting that no magazines mod when it comes out. I only use melee and laser weapons, but NPCs keep bugging out because they don’t have magazines for their guns.
Just play with the mod that disables clips. It makes all weapons use the integrated magazine mechanics.
Update to latest experimental. It is out.
Wait… You mean experimental isn’t supposed to be experimental?
XD everyone LOVES experimental… but when it does Experimental things…
I love it when people are beeing the worst. Stay the way you are humankind.
So its not just me that thinks that? I am glad of this. Humanity you are so wonderfully good/bad.
Well you could argue that if we had not complained about it there would be no fix mod, and so it would get lots of people mad, so it was actually true. When people complain about the experimental they are doing the right thing, because that’s what you, as a developer, wants.
This is more or less a community project, with players and coders coming up with ideas, then coders make them true and the rest decides if it’s good or not.
So i’m with thwap in this one, even if i think he could have behaved a bit better. But yeah. What’s the point of experimenting without looking if it’s good or bad.
[quote=“StopSignal, post:67, topic:11418”]Well you could argue that if we had not complained about it there would be no fix mod, and so it would get lots of people mad, so it was actually true. When people complain about the experimental they are doing the right thing, because that’s what you, as a developer, wants.
So i’m with thwap in this one, even if i think he could have behaved a bit better. But yeah. What’s the point of experimenting without looking if it’s good or bad.[/quote]
Sorry, not even remotely true, this (civil and productive) thread http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=12154.0 is what got me to do the mod that reverts guns to use integral magazines. When “bug reports” veer off into being demanding or use abusive language, I ignore them. If Thwap’s post was the only post on the subject, I would not have made the mod. Similarly, if you post rude and/or demanding feature requests or bug reports, you are hurting your chances of me taking you seriously in the future.
Sorry, i don’t understand? I was replying to the idea of people being mad at experimental versions.
This
and this
Indicate that you think Thwap’s comments were productive, they weren’t. How features are requested or bugs are reported is important.
I think the magazine overhaul is great, tbh. I love the changes to item repair too.
[quote=“Bumpkin, post:71, topic:11418”]I think the magazine overhaul is great, tbh. I love the changes to item repair too.[/quote]I like the idea too. I didn’t get to try the mag system but I’m glad the devs strive to balance unbalanced aspects of the game (somehow reloading singular ammo units straight into the weapon mid-combat) and for more realism in general. You see some people go mad because suddenly their newest experimental version they auto-download with the Updater, or people who are used to update the game nightly, suddenly have a major broken feature which ruins some part of the game for them or kills them. Well, guess what:
It’s called “Experimental” for a reason. Why are you playing an experimental version if you know major changes/additions can ruin your save/build/setup? Why are you playing a version that wasn’t tested or fixed to work properly? Wait for weapons to spawn with their respective mags. Wait for NPCs to stop exploding whenever they try to reload a weapon. Don’t download the newest build blindly. I bet people have lost items, characters, and even whole saves because of one bug or another; why risk it?
You can download an old experimental build or ask someone to upload it. You can also play the no-mag mod Kevin released. Weapon magazines were suggested by many users and feedback for them was mostly positive. Bugs, glitches and imbalance are bound to happen and it’s natural for them to occur. If you don’t wish to try new features DON’T. PLAY. EXPERIMENTAL BUILDS. Wanting to post feedback is one thing, calling something people worked hard for “useless” or “shitty” and saying they ruined an aspect of the game is another.
So basically to sum it all up, everyone should notify when they spot a bug in experimental, but there is no reason to COMPLAIN. Experimental is experimental, there WILL be problems, don’t blame others for the fact you are VOLUNTEERING to alpha/beta test. Just notify kevin, rivet, whoever made the change and the rest of the gang that there is a problem. No need to get mad about changes.
well, i’ve opened the topic to complain not about bugs or a specific mechanic, but about what i perceived as a trend in late game development. And i honestly feel that the game is less fluent from a gameplay pov, even taking into account the inevitable bugs in experimental versions. Unfortunately this turned into a guns magazines bashing/defending based on how bugged it is atm, while it’s the idea of guns magazines i dont like, among others, and that was adequately covered by making it an optional mod.
Yet this isn’t the only contention i have, that’s why i try to raise the question of game becoming more tedious. Even before this new mechanic i felt this way, and i am wary of small things being done just for the sake of realism and at the expense of game fluidity and time wasted with no other gain.
Just because i criticize some aspects of the game does not mean i don’t like the game. Only criticism can improve the game, not attitudes like “hey, it’s experimental, don’t like it - don’t play it”. I am all for trying new things, but for also admitting when they don’t work, or at least don’t work for everybody.
good point time to get back on topic.
I think early-mid to mid-game is probably the most tedious point in the game. You have to keep all your growing skills in balance and keep them from rusting on you (if you have rust) While continuing to build your way to more assured survival. As such, it is a lot of maintaining until you finally get the CBM’s going.
But thats just kind of gameplay for me.
Teir 1:
Getting your first base w/ food prep and basic weapon & a place to sleep is sort of a soft tier 1
Getting an RV or other electric cooking & large supply of battery / other “anytime” cooking/crafting fire source & solid reliable weaponry is sort of tail end “soft tier 1”
Tier 2:
Getting solid mobility/ self reliance for freely looting distant places / never running out of supplies.
Aka, farm and/or transportation and a place to keep all the things you need. Even if its scattered supply cashes (for those playing full nomad)
Tier 3:
CBM installing, getting/mastering martial arts, collecting NPC’s. start of mid-late game tech/ abilities and mutations
Rest of the game.
getting over the crest is the tricky bit. Getting some mechanics skill is usually pretty crucial and that can be a REAL bugger to get started without finding a good skill book/rareish tools. Definitely a bit of inherent tedious-nous in that part of the game. Add on some of the tailoring/mag trouble can make it a bit obnoxious. Plus any specific dificulties that particular play-through may be having, food, water, fuel, batteries, mechanic skill, no good weapon etc…
Ferodaktyl: to be clear, I wasn’t saying the thread as a whole was unproductive, and I am following it.
[quote=“Litppunk, post:75, topic:11418”]Teir 1:
Getting your first base w/ food prep and basic weapon & a place to sleep is sort of a soft tier 1
Getting an RV or other electric cooking & large supply of battery / other “anytime” cooking/crafting fire source & solid reliable weaponry is sort of tail end “soft tier 1”
Tier 2:
Getting solid mobility/ self reliance for freely looting distant places / never running out of supplies.
Aka, farm and/or transportation and a place to keep all the things you need. Even if its scattered supply cashes (for those playing full nomad)
Tier 3:
CBM installing, getting/mastering martial arts, collecting NPC’s. start of mid-late game tech/ abilities and mutations
Rest of the game.[/quote]
No, this IS the “rest of the game”. All you did was literally leave the a-normal-human-being-turned-into-a-bionic-supersoldier-mutation combat part out, which is, inevitably, what the whole endgame quickly becomes all about. Saying progressing to the lategame is tedious is like saying fighting through 10+ levels to get the orb in various other dungeon-crawling roguelikes is tedious. “Why can’t I just get the orb at the end of the first level so I win/only fight for fun”, right? That’s not how it works. Just because you figured an optimal way to get to the lategame doesn’t mean everything up to that point becomes tedious.
I agree that at some point you figure out how to get exactly what you want or find where you want it, and it is no longer that exciting. There’s only so much RNG can do to fuck you over without being entirely unfair, at least to newcomers. I also agree that some mechanics can be quite time consuming without gaining you much, like (B)utchering rags to collect thread. But these can be changed/reverted easily; the real question is, how do you “fix” the things YOU mentioned? Start characters with a vehicle? Spawn them with enough supplies so they don’t have to “grind” various materials? These defeat the whole point of survival then.
As it stand, additionally to the health system the game also features pain levels, morale, temperature and encumberance; you need to tend to these before you get to the “fun” part of exploration and combat. You need to have, to some extent, “boring” parts so the true fun actually ARE fun. You need the downs to have the ups, similar to how various driving games have you driving around town between races and finding vehicles/upgrades, or various shooters have the occasional regroup-at-base/resupply/cinematic/stealth sequence.
Then again, the game seriously lacks an end-goal, so players are forced to set their own standards while playing. You do realize most characters, whether experienced players play them or amateur, do not survive the 1st tier you mentioned, right? Is it tedious to die over and over again, and repeat the same actions almost every game? Eventually, yes. RNG can’t change the need to eat, drink and otherwise sustain yourself; that’s what survival games are all about. You can’t have them without these features, so saying survival in general is tedious (your tier list) quickly becomes irrelevant.
Besides, how do you even measure what’s tedious and what isn’t?
Amount of actions/keypresses needed to complete it? All combat, excluding OHK/overkilling, becomes tedious. Time consumption vs. gain? Hunting animals for food becomes tedious. These things, and more of their kind, CAN’T be removed/changed, because not only will they remove fun value, but they’d also hurt core mechanics of game genres like survival games and true (turn-based) roguelikes.
It’s all very subjective. I don’t think most of the things in-game are tedious; I like realism and I’d be willing to sacrifice some !FUN! to have it. CDDA is exactly what it says on its tin: “a post-apocalyptic survival roguelike video game”. Every game that gives player freedom or some sort of progressing choice has its own linear “progression tree”; take Terraria or Minecraft or whatever. It’s only natural to get bored of some parts of it. When you do, just… take a break? Calling the whole thing tedious is a bit unfair just because you already know what to expect and how to progress your way to an overpowered state. I didn’t find the game tedious when I first started playing, nor do I find it tedious now.
Any examples?
So far most of the “tedious” changes were either with gameplay in mind or just unfinished (magazine ones).
For example, the repair and item damage changes - those improve realism, but also make item damage meaningful.
Any examples?
So far most of the “tedious” changes were either with gameplay in mind or just unfinished (magazine ones).
For example, the repair and item damage changes - those improve realism, but also make item damage meaningful.[/quote]
I don’t think this is recent but something that comes to mind in regards to realism at the expense of game fluidity that I’ve noticed are certain rifles that are loaded one bullet at a time. It’s realistic that they exist, there are rifles that work like that, but I’m not clear on why it needs a marathon button pressing session to fully load the gun instead of hitting reload once and the games time progressing while my character fully loads the gun unless something interrupts the process like a monster showing up.
I love that feature! It makes gunplay against waves of zombies much more suspenseful as I frantically shove fresh rounds into my shotgun before the next zed comes within arm’s reach.