Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - Classes and SubClasses

[vultures]

I’ve been discussing this preface with a friend of mine. Altough not a powergamer, he was (and still is) a veteran gamemaster whom I often consult with when it comes to more sensible subjects like this one. The turning point of our discussion had been scenarios bundled with professions, whereas the conclusion has been that having a background along with few specializations is in fact - a character subclass.

Let’s set it off with answering a simple question:
“How does one resemble a subclass amongst known character classes?”

Let’s reminescence “Gladiator”, the Oscar-winning spectacle with plenty of action scenes. A high-ranking Roman officer, which is perhaps the textbook definition for a reasonable Fighter character, is captured and therefore forced to drop his profession for another, not so different subclass. His choice is not accidental - he could’ve oriented towards the Barbarian portion of his Fighter class experience or become more subtle and cunning (Rogue) - but he makes a deliberate decision to take a high road back to Rome in order to face his adversary.

If he was a trained soldier that followed a different path to ultimate freedom, I must ask another question:
“Could the pre-cataclysmic Fast Food Cook adapt to a more suitable subclass?”

The Choice

Let’s take an angle, rather an innocent one, on the abovementioned Gladiator character subclass. We oughta perceive the exact moment the change occurs, going from a class to a (more dedicated) subclass. The (primary) test of his skills is followed by a change in style; he focuses on a weapon, develops a stance in order to adapt to the atmosphere in the arena. He becomes “The Spaniard”, as he entertains the crowds; his reputation grows, but his leadership abilities from an early period prove to be crucial when finishing his quest.
The Arena Champion feat he acquired, amongst severeal others, makes him suitable for his commander role once again.

If the focus is on the development aspect of his subclass, a clear distinction pops up, whereas the freedom is an achievement accomplished through survival “in the ropes”. Even though he has some ability to shape the Fame portion of development, the Rank which follows him all the way to the great Colloseum in Rome recursively depends on the attitude of the audience (“the crowd”) but also time.
The Spaniard can make no such decision as to challenge one champion or another for the title - Venues, therefore Time dictates the pace of his Subclass Skill Level(s).

This is where the Subclass system becomes interesting for the CataDDA player!
Post-cataclysmic survival is The Challenge, whereas Time is the primary development factor.

In other words, it’s important how long you’re going to shake it, if you’re going to actually make it.

To make it work anyhow, let’s recall the professions - therefore the mechanism that “works” the characters into the CataDDA game.
It’s important to hereby mention that the players choose professions in order to speed up their in-game development and achieve certain goals. Therefore, an athletic character chooses a fitting sports profession, whilst the perceptive + dexterous choice might propose a less physical occupation where the right tool put in good use makes the difference between survival and a threat to his/her very life.

[vultures]

The Categories

Let’s make sensible Categories and organize professions for what they really are:
Athlete : Basketball Player, Pro Cyclist, Biker, Bionic Athlete, Bionic Police Officer, Hockey Player, Baseball Player, Football Player, Golfer, Firefighter, Martial Artist, Blackbelt, Roller Derby Player;
Prepper : Bionic Prepper, Sheltered Survivor, Specops, Survivalist, Bionic Firefighter, Bionic Soldier, Razor Boy/Girl, Bionic Monster, National Guard, Hardened Survivor, Hardened Scavenger;
Craftsman : Tailor, Lab Technician, Beekeper, Handy Man, Commercial Cyborg, Blacksmith;
Laborer : Chef, Home Mechanic, Maid, Medical Resident, Security Guard, Lumberjack, Fast Food Cook, Electrician, Computer Hacker, Volunteer Mutant, Bionic Worker, Mail Carrier, U.C. Salesman, Lawyer, Pizza Delivery Boy/Girl, Farmer, Fisher;
Hunter : Military Recruit, Cop, Bow Hunter, Trapper, Archaeologist;
Rogue : Survivor, Scoundrel, Gangster, Chain Smoker, Crackhead, Hobo, Tweaker, Backpacker, Student, Shower Victim, Balroom Dancer, Bionic Thief, Bionic Patient, Patient, Unwilling Mutant, Bionic Boffin, Bionic Spy, Bionic Assassin, Failed Cyborg, Hitchiker, Clown, Lost Submissive, Senior Citizen, Otaku, Groom/Bride, Punk Rock Girl/Dude, Rude Boy/Girl, Convict, Cyberjunkie, Novice MA, Mall Security;

The above shows there are six main classes in CataDDA. Just like recipes make use of tools, materials and skills, professions also need some skills that belong to certain classes, with the exception of the universal skillset that is suitable to all classes:
Athlete : Swimming, Bashing, Cutting, Throw, Unarmed;
Prepper : Launchers, Shotguns, Submachine Guns;
Craftsman : Construction, Fabrication;
Laborer : Computers, Cooking, Electronics, First Aid, Mechanics, Tailoring;
Hunter : Trapping, Archery, Handguns, Rifles;
Rogue : Bartering, Dodging, Piercing Weapons;
Common : Driving, Speech, Survival, Marksmanship, Melee.

The general idea is to intensify skill learning, or slow it down if the profession belongs to another class and thus favors another skillset. If the Common skillset offers equal advancement pace (“potential”) to all professions’ classes, let’s have another - related skillset - to comply with this rule, so to expand on the Common skillset concept per class:
Athlete favors Prepper class skillset, and vice-versa.
Craftsman favors Laborer class skillset, and vice-versa.
Hunter favors Rogue class skillset, and vice-versa.

When a character chooses his/her profession, he is proficient with the corresponding class skillset. Whenever he/she uses a class skill, the game calculates how much he/she has advanced towards the next rank. The advancement rate should look like this:
110% : Class Skillset;
100% : Common, Related Skillset;
90% : Non-Related Skillsets.

Our character may start with or without valuable skills to his/her survival, but he/she will show more or less potential in skills that do, or don’t, belong to his class skillset. As time passes, the character will strive to become proficient with a broader range of skills.

The Advancement

Months after the catacysm had struck, the fate of our survivor lies solely in his/her hands. Learning new ways to use tools and managing depletable resources render him/her have better chances of survival in the long run. But is our player character really advancing?

Level advancement, besides the primary time factor, depends on the skill development too.

The above is important for gradually speeding up the skill learning process as it takes more time to achieve greater ranks. This way, our survivor is able to make the right choices in order to advance in skill ranks and meet the level requirements.

Let’s create a table of those requirements and bonuses:

#LVL	TIME	REQ			BONUS				STAT
2	3m	2CS, 1CS, 2CRS		+1CRS				+20% HP BASE
3	7m	3CS, 2CS, 3CRS		+1CRS				+20% HP BASE
4	12m	4CS, 3CS, 4CRS		+1CRS				+20% HP BASE
5	18m	5CS, 4CS, 5CRS		+1CRS				+20% HP BASE
6	25m	6CS, 6CS, 6CRS		Skillset, Trait			200% Total HP, +1 Stat Point
7	33m	7CS, 6CS, 7CRS		+1CRS				+20% HP BASE
8	42m	8CS, 7CS, 8CRS		+1CRS				+20% HP BASE
9	52m	9CS, 8CS, 9CRS		+1CRS				+20% HP BASE
10	63m	10CS, 9CS, 10CRS	+1CRS				+20% HP BASE
11	75m	11CS, 10CS, 11CRS	+1CRS				+20% HP BASE
12	88m	12CS, 12CS, 12CRS	Skillset, Trait			300% Total HP, +1 Stat Point
13	102m	13CS, 13CS, 13CRS	Class Feat			+20% HP BASE
14	117m	14CS, 14CS, 14CRS	+10% Resistance			+20% HP BASE
15	133m	15CS, 15CS, 15CRS	Class Feat			+20% HP BASE
16	150m	16CS, 16CS, 16CRS	+10% Resistance			+20% HP BASE
17	168m	17CS, 17CS, 17CRS	Class Feat			+20% HP BASE
18	187m	18CS, 18CS, 18CRS	Skillset, Trait			400% Total HP, +1 Stat Point
19	207m	19CS, 19CS, 19CRS	Class Feat, Resistance		+20% HP BASE
20	228m	20CS, 20CS, 20CRS	Class Feat, Resistance		+20% HP BASE

* TIME in months of play;
* CS is the Class Skill, CRS refers to Class-Related and Common skills;
* Skillset allows another Class skillset choice;
* Trait gives 1/2/3 points to spend on a single trait, given the ability to choose a single negative trait at the time;
* Class Feat gives player the opportunity to choose one class specialization;
* Resistance refers to Elemental Resistance, and the bonus added to the player's choice of element damage type.

The player character qualifies for level advancement if he/she had survived up to 19 years of gameplay. However, level gain doesn’t happen until requirements are fulfilled. Given the assumption that the character has focused on two of his/her class skills, the rank must be equal to the level gained with progress. The same goes for one skill from the Common skillset, altough the secondary Class skill advancement has a -1 advancement treshold.
Improving CRS helps the character advance at a full rate (100%) in the chosen skill; player can choose up to nine skills this way and those are to be considered Common, or Class Related to his class. Choosing a secondary, tertiary and quartiary skillset is a valuable asset; the particular choice introduces a 110% skill advancement rate to another class skillset, which should help in quicker progress in various skills.

===============================================================================================
If the devs agree with this system, I’m willing to elaborate on the Feats portion of level advancement and aid in Subclass development, in order to give more flavor to current classes/professions categories.

[KA101]

Can’t say I’ve much enthusiasm for classes and levels in DDA. Especially not tabled and restricted like that.

This dev votes Opposed.

[DigitalPhantom]

Eh.

Implimentation wise, my guess is too much work for not enough profit.

I’ve toyed around with a similar system and even worked on one with a friend in the past and what always happened was that the details became… cumbersome.

My main argument against the system is not the effort required, but how the idea meshes with the existing theme of CDDA. And my argument is that it does not fit in.

I do understand that modding CDDA is currently limited to JSON manipulation, but I have no doubt that with a little fiddling you could make most of what you have there work with the existing scenerio/profession framework.

[kevin.granade]

Some aspects of this I’m sympathetic to, others not.
The base goal of this kind of thing is having traits that make a character play differently.
With a class system you codify player archetypes, and reward players for acting within their role.
Also you bring up levels, which I’m extremely opposed to, but I don’t think they’re essential for the primary goal of having characters develop in different ways.

You can do something similar with individual traits, but for that to be meaningful, choosing or acquiring certain traits must deny access to other traits, otherwise it devolves into ‘get all the traits’.

The concept cataclysm follows for this is that skills must be maintained, that skill rust will drain levels in skills you don’t use regularly. This is of course undermined by the implementation not being well tuned and people turning off skill rust.

Differentiation based purely on skill is probably insufficient as well, what we need is a (non-mutation, non cybernetic) way to acquire distinctive traits, I don’t have an idea for what that should be, but I’ll keep thinking about it.

[KA101]

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:5, topic:7490”]Some aspects of this I’m sympathetic to, others not.
The base goal of this kind of thing is having traits that make a character play differently.
With a class system you codify player archetypes, and reward players for acting within their role.
Also you bring up levels, which I’m extremely opposed to, but I don’t think they’re essential for the primary goal of having characters develop in different ways.

You can do something similar with individual traits, but for that to be meaningful, choosing or acquiring certain traits must deny access to other traits, otherwise it devolves into ‘get all the traits’.

The concept cataclysm follows for this is that skills must be maintained, that skill rust will drain levels in skills you don’t use regularly. This is of course undermined by the implementation not being well tuned and people turning off skill rust.

Differentiation based purely on skill is probably insufficient as well, what we need is a (non-mutation, non cybernetic) way to acquire distinctive traits, I don’t have an idea for what that should be, but I’ll keep thinking about it.[/quote]

I recall raising the idea of profession-based traits which were granted either at chargen or (rarely) as quest rewards. Haven’t had time to whip some up, but I think they’d do pretty well for helping differentiate characters.

[vultures]

Let’s be open - I think that once there was a discussion threading this absolute CataDDA feature. I’ve been trying to remember who was showing enthusiasm towards this idea, doing so for the last couple’a’days…

The thing is, I recall how I’ve been told to set a hiatus on the whole matter - a smart thing though - because the person I’ve been discussing it with knew about a couple of features pending, some of them important like a dozen traits, professions, world options, etc etc. Even though I kept to myself about this, it didn’t cancel my own, tabletop endeavors in the CataDDA setting. I dunno if you guys feel tabletops measure to computer RPGs at any level, though I’ve become certain, through roleplaying experience, that upgrading adventure’s challenge rating and opposition difficulty weighs heavily on player characters if they’re never offered an opportunity to advance in level.

The top two posts are indeed a result of playing and adapting a mix of tabletop rules to the Cataclysm setting. Even though the balance lays on “real-life” roleplaying side - and I was completely aware of this prior to writing the whole thing - be assured it could work out just fine for CataDDA, too. I know it seems somehow abruptive to the measure of freedom that current characters already have in the game, but the general perspective was not focused on limitations. The idea was to reward the survivor after a couple of years of gameplay. For example, the Year Two mark (12m) offers three CRS bonuses and a good 60% of base HP over the top assuming the character has taken a couple of quests, honed (at least) three important skills thus adapting to post-cataclysmic life. If the player manages to step into the third year of gameplay, the second tier (class skillset) is introduced with all those needed recipes, followed by a substantial boost to overall HP. This way, making an all-around character coincides with raising the difficulty bar, introducing heavy opposition and working the way into Subclasses and Feats, which in my opinion is the right kind of reward for survival, and may come even before eight and a half years into the game…

I’m not gonna act like this is “the bestest” solution to the mentioned issue(s), I’m just gonna finish saying that it is pretty straightforward with a lot of space left for modification. Knowing that all roleplaying systems mature over time is the key to a good campaign, and the rule should also apply to a computer game.

[Barhandar]

For example, the Year Two mark (12m) offers three CRS bonuses and a good 60% of base HP over the top assuming the character has taken a couple of quests, honed (at least) three important skills thus adapting to post-cataclysmic life.

This rests on very noticeable assumption: that skills are progressing about 1/10 of the speed they do, roughly analogous to removing all skill books from the game. Three important skills honed by TWO YEARS? If you’re lucky (and capped or disabled skill rust), you’ll be rocking three or more 10+ skills in four weeks. Half a year, going by game defaults.

Highly against it. I do not want CDDA to be a grinding chore.

[vultures]

You’re making it about hampering the skill advancement process, which is not the case here, Barhandar.

It’s a viable system after all - altough it might not be suitable to a particular, individual game setting like yours is.
I’m not exactly sure if you’re just trying to piss me off here, exactly - you clearly found a way to do so (reading how it’s two years and not 12 months like I’ve wrote, omitting the conception of class skills with three CRS bonuses). So, are you?

Let me just imply once more that this is my effort. For all the time I’ve enjoyed this game it never occured to me that there could ever be so much content invited into it that the crispness of the concept just had to be changed. I can’t say, but can you make it clear if this game will look alike this time next year? And - is it because of your half-a-year runs?!?

Something’s gotta give

Like it or not, this is my take on it. It goes to show how important it is to:
a) track character progress in general;
b) make up a scale off of it in order to avoid the “all-vanilla” flavor;
c) make sense of late survivors failing to survive nevermind the area CR.

If something marks the beginning that doesn’t mean the “chore” is up to clutter your senses.