you don’t balance a game just by asking players not to do the unbalanced things.[/quote]
gasoline powered stuff won’t also imbalance the game in regards to power as we already have an unbalanced unlimited power supply from CBM’s and Toolset welding.[/quote]
so this would add another one, which would be even easier to pull off. CBM welding with infinite power (Internal Furnace or Metabolic Interchange) or conditionally infinite power (Solar Panels) at least requires high Electronics training. finding a gasoline welder and a gas station actually simplifies things a lot.
things should be going in the opposite direction, not getting easier.
It would just give people a new play style option but like I said power costs should be higher than batteries but not too high like CBM rates.
but CBM power costs are not high. they are trivial. i don’t understand what you’re saying.
Crafting a said generator would also require you to have a high skill and gasoline welders/ acetylene torches and can be made rare to give some balance, welders are easy enough to find in public works so is making batteries for them.
I don’t understand why you don’t like the option of an alternate source for welding and insist that battery and CBM should be the way to go. (So why can’t we have gasoline welders/acetylene torches hmm?)
People want their mobile steel fortress being available faster with other alternatives then give them that option.
i mean what if i was like "guys im trying to RP a Masai tribesman survivor who only drinks milk, can we invent an entire generator setup for refrigerators and also a livestock system with animal husbandry and cow milking so that i can survive just on milk? it'd be super cool and allow a lot of options and playstyle choices."
LOL that was awesome.
Typical arc welder wattages: 11000, 15410, etc.
Typical portable generator outputs in watts: 10,000, 5,500, 2,800…
Seems like the typical portable generator would be unable to power the typical arc welder.
Gosh, you might have to scavenge a bit to collect the resources to build a huge death machine. Imagine that.
The welder is a hand held device powered with small batteries with god knows what wattage it produces in the game. (small batteries would just make it look like a toy not an actual electric powered arc welder)
Same can be said for Gasoline powered generator producing unknown wattage but give the function, so power equations shouldn’t be discussed here.
[quote=“Stevensonz, post:42, topic:1797”]Crafting a said generator would also require you to have a high skill and gasoline welders/ acetylene torches and can be made rare to give some balance, welders are easy enough to find in public works so is making batteries for them.
I don’t understand why you don’t like the option of an alternate source for welding and insist that battery and CBM should be the way to go. (So why can’t we have gasoline welders/acetylene torches hmm?)
People want their mobile steel fortress being available faster with other alternatives then give them that option.[/quote]
woah woah woah
see, you’re mixing up two totally different things here:
we should have gasoline-powered welding / oxy-fuel torches / mig-tig welding
—> absolutely.
i need more ways to create an invincible mobile steel fortress.
—> no fucking way.
Typical arc welder wattages: 11000, 15410, etc.
Typical portable generator outputs in watts: 10,000, 5,500, 2,800…
Seems like the typical portable generator would be unable to power the typical arc welder.
Gosh, you might have to scavenge a bit to collect the resources to build a huge death machine. Imagine that.
Have you ever actually worked with one? we power ours with a generator. Fucking city kids…
Honestly i’m not here to argue you guys have had some good points in return, but where is live it’s seriously rural and pretty isolated. Western Australia is 3 and a half times the size of texas with barely 2 million people living in such a huge area and get this, only ONE city in all that space has traffic lights!!!
Because of how isolated and spaced out the state is and how small the population is it’s not worth it to have the sort of serious infrastructure other nations enjoy (lol the interstate is a single laner). Generators are for large areas the only realistic option to get power, and i’m not just talking about homes, a lot of construction goes on in the middle of nowhere and unless you want to pay a few hundred thousand to build a bunch of powerlines then pay the massive connection fee it’s alot easier to lob a massive generator on the back of a truck and drive it out to whereever you need to be. I’m sure your ‘typical’ generator would be very small compared to the ‘typical’ generators encountered out here.
LOL i just realised my idea of ‘portable’ would be very different from yours too, portable if you got a tractor or small crane haha
haha i’m glad we can agree, dont want to introduce anything to the game that would make it too easy, but at the same time the game is (eventually) going to have factions capable of mass producing turrets, manhacks, robocops, energy based weapons etc, if they can so should we (as most high level science based projects are powered by a small handful of great minds, consider the manhattan project, or the light bulb) and as it’s possible to become a great mind, if you can gather all the resources needed i think we all agree you deserve the rewards (cause it takes alot of work to reach that level).
Logically i agree that you should be able to power batteries with a solar charger but i fear such a move would just be too convenient, inevitably i think as the community grows for this game (which it will cause it’s an already awesome game and it’s only gonna get better) we need to work out a way to balance the amount of power you can get easily (while still leaving the sky as a limit, but at the same time, making it as hard as the sky to reach, it wasnt easy to get to the moon but we did it with computers that would be envious of a mobile phone).
As the current hardcore community what sort of things do you think we should eventually be allowed to power? I would love to be able to make a way to keep rooms warm and lighted, keep spoil-able food good for longer, allow the player to create workshops (for whatever, cars, robots, turrets, weapons etc), when roaming mobs are introduced electric fences would pay serious dividends.
I want to hear your guys opinions even if i don’t agree cause after all, WE are making this game for US.
and i thank you guys for disagreeing with anything i’ve said, i’m listening to you.
[quote=“grisamentum, post:45, topic:1797”]2) i need more ways to create an invincible mobile steel fortress.
—> no fucking way.[/quote]
Yes always, there is a million ways to skin a cat, and an invincible steel fortress is realistically not so hard. (You should see the monstrosities people make out hear for fun) The local council is the only thing that stops most people. People call texas the deep south, you should see the crazy shit us aussie bogans create for a laugh hehehehe yankie rednecks don’t know the meaning of loose! (Loose is used in oz to describe someone who does not give a shit about reasonable).
Oh god i love this corner of the country, the last free stronghold on earth. sigh, it’s not gonna last long
Australia won’t be the outback if the last free stronghold on earth is gone.
The only thing that’s stopping you making a steel fortress is lack of a power source, which we don’t have because of infinite power supplies/sources available hehe.
If factions with mass production of high tech rare items are or were part of the plan, then it’s a flaw in the plan. In that design, it’s likely that they’d utterly eclipse most others in importance.
I’m not sure how many names compose a handful, but the Manhattan Project employed literal tons of scientists, drawn from a pool of candidates that encompassed the entire nation, and called upon over 100,000 total workers. Many postapocalyptic factions would not have 100,000 people total; Oppenheimer and Fermi would not have made a nuclear weapon together in a garage. Bringing up light bulbs in the same breath is fairly ridiculous.
I think grisamentum’s concerns are with gameplay, not realism, and they’re entirely justified if so.
[quote=“ted, post:51, topic:1797”]If factions with mass production of high tech rare items are or were part of the plan, then it’s a flaw in the plan. In that design, it’s likely that they’d utterly eclipse most others in importance.
I’m not sure how many names compose a handful, but the Manhattan Project employed literal tons of scientists, drawn from a pool of candidates that encompassed the entire nation, and called upon over 100,000 total workers. Many postapocalyptic factions would not have 100,000 people total; Oppenheimer and Fermi would not have made a nuclear weapon together in a garage. Bringing up light bulbs in the same breath is fairly ridiculous.
I think grisamentum’s concerns are with gameplay, not realism, and they’re entirely justified if so.[/quote]
They have always been part of the plan.
Click the factions shortcut or read the source code for what defines individual factions, mass production of robots is one of the values that determine what separates one faction from another. The science behind nuclear weapons were discovered by a few bright minds who had the bravery to think outside the boxes set up in their time, the principals of putting it in action can be taught by any university once the huge leap in logic was made by the original few who were willing to be called stupid and crazy by their fellow temporal companions. In this day and age of crazy technology individuals can make 100000 times the impact an individual could make in the past during their time. Julian assange has done bugger all but he is way more famous then isaac newton or socraties were in their time. It took Van Gogh and gallilao to die before anyone gave them a second look, and as you say, 100,000 others appered after they died to bring an ‘offical’ movement.
Look at history, all great discoveroes were ‘crazy’ before they were ‘sane’, and most the time they were made by one person before, as you say, 100,000 other worked on it. Most great minds were either killed or forced to commit suicide, read your history child.
I must also respectfully disagree with you on a technological faction eclipsing another in importance. A cup of water is worth more than gold to a thirsty man. What good are robots if you are starving to death? What good is food if you want to suicide? The factions have a number of individual purposes, from what i can remember off my stoned head the values are: Food, Training, Combat, Robbery, Raiding, Healing, Robotic Industry and Isolationism, or there abouts.
Open your mind before you open your mouth.
P.S. If all thats important in your mind for technological development (Requires =>100,000 population, or workers) then 3 small sized cities in USA would fill that piece of piss, and i assume the game is set in USA (Here i am assuming again :P) Humans flock faster than sheep.
And before you open your mouth about the complexity of a nuclear bomb or whatever, remember how easy it is in this game to get your hands on PLUTONIUM or an inter-dimensional portal.
Yep, i’m obviously a dickhead for saying a simple petrol generator should be available, how unrealistic of me, i am so greedy.
Also, the light bulb in an age that did not understand electricity is a revolution beyond like likes you could ever imagine as we live in an age where everyone knows ‘everything’, such as yourself (wikipedia) lol
Thomas edison did not invent the light bulb, he just invented the best one untill modern low electricity bulbs, they were invented turn of the century 1800’s i think, and most people back then would have thought they worked by magic (currently most peoples understanding of science is based on magic, the availability of information just makes people more ignorant cause they assume they must know something seeing as we are so ‘enlightened’ and ‘wise’ now, as if it’s a state intrinsic of a person born in this time, rather than something that takes a lifetime of vigilance)
[quote=“Jimbo_Jamerson, post:49, topic:1797”][quote=“grisamentum, post:45, topic:1797”]2) i need more ways to create an invincible mobile steel fortress.
—> no fucking way.[/quote]
Yes always, there is a million ways to skin a cat, and an invincible steel fortress is realistically not so hard. (You should see the monstrosities people make out hear for fun) The local council is the only thing that stops most people. People call texas the deep south, you should see the crazy shit us aussie bogans create for a laugh hehehehe yankie rednecks don’t know the meaning of loose! (Loose is used in oz to describe someone who does not give a shit about reasonable).
Oh god i love this corner of the country, the last free stronghold on earth. sigh, it’s not gonna last long :([/quote]
My one quest in my current attempt at Cataclysm (the first that I could consider ‘successful’) was to find a welder to mess with vehicle modification. I’ve then decided to raid the lab for one and found multiple integrated toolsets, and at least two of every sort of power source. Oh well, sometimes you take what you can get.
But yes, I am all for getting power from vehicles. Perhaps the ability to charge devices from car storage batteries? It doesn’t make sense not to be able to do that. Maybe the ability to set up solar panels to charge storage batteries without needing to create a car?
