Wilderness Living Pre-Post-Mortem

Game Talk The Drawing Board
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The mod is now up over in the modding forum.
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I started a character with the default survivor profession/starting location, 90 day seasons, a city size of 1, and an item spawn rate of 5% normal (version 0.B, 4bf7456). I’m nearly 90 days in (it’s almost summer!), and I found some things that kind of bothered me. So this is part balancing question, part suggestion pile, part bug report, and part feedback blog all rolled into one. I modded my way through any issues that I found to test solutions, and most of them seem to work. Once I get more testing done, the eventual plan (if there’s any interest) is to puzzle my way through Github and then throw together agreed upon changes into a PR. If there’s anyone interested in implementing any of this before I can get around to it, feel free.

The first significant issue that you run into is the scarcity of rocks with the lower item spawn rate. It would be nice if the rocks (and other ‘natural’ materials) were independent of item spawn, as it turns into a game of just stripping a house of all furniture and burning it down to get rocks. This also led me to discover that clearing most of the rubble that results from houses burning down doesn’t return very much anymore. Walls burn down into 1-3 rocks, and the rocky rubble from floors burning down doesn’t return any items when cleared. I know it used to provide mountains of rebar and rocks, but now a whole house will only net you 30-50 rocks total.

When working your way up the fabrication tree, you hit a couple weird issues. The first is that you can’t build your own stone forge. I added in a recipe to make one out of 40 stone and 2 pipes through the construction menu and that worked well. The next issue that you run into is the crucible - you simply cannot get a steel frame without hacking it off a car or making one with more advanced tools. I realized that crucibles are quite often made of ceramics, rather than metals, which made me happy since I could just steal the clay_pot recipe and swap it out. The last snag is the swage and die set, which isn’t autolearn. This is pretty critical as the majority of tools that you can make require it (especially anything with an edge). I’d suggest making the swage and die set autolearn - that would let players build quite a lot of things from nothing but mountains of raw materials, while also firmly putting a technology line between blacksmithing and modern welding (as no welder is autolearn). Another nit is that there’s no makeshift wood sawing tool. I threw together a recipe for a wiresaw with wood sawing 1. The other big hurdle is that duct tape is not autolearned, which is strange as it’s the low tech alternative for welding. This makes three hard gates on crafting your way to a smithy, which seems like an awful lot for something that isn’t that valuable in a high item spawn world, in addition to the hard gated duct tape.

Clay is pretty fab to work with at the moment, but the recipes do not seem to work with a constructed charcoal kiln. In theory, it might be better to require a constructed pottery kiln separate item, but that risks construction bloat (my workshop was already filling up as-is). I’m also not sure if this is intended, but when you extract a clay mound, it changes the shallow water to deep water. It kind of makes sense, but it also makes the coastline really strange after doing it a while and it’s not a significant balancer considering how long rivers go for.

Medical stuff is a big issue for wilderness living. The poppy medicine recipes are not autolearn, which seems odd - they’re mutated poppies (and relatively new), so they wouldn’t really be in books. I’d suggest removing the poppy recipes from books entirely, and requiring a high-ish cooking and survival to make them. It would also be neat to have some herbal ingredients from foraging for other medicinal uses (with either a lower effect or a lower chance of success than medicine proper), but I need to do more research on New England plants to really suggest anything concrete. At a minimum I’d like an antiseptic of some sort.

Cooking is kind of boring as well, as I basically went from cooked meat to deluxe scrambled eggs (with meat) to meat pies. I’ve got ideas for a few season-specific recipes that use foraged foods, though I’ll need to do a bit more research on what stuff actually spawns in which seasons. Rhubarb in particular falls out of the sky in Spring, but it’s also pretty useless as sugar seems completely unavailable without chemistry books and the only other recipe with it is dehydrated fruit which requires a difficult to get smoker. In my to-do list is a simple constructed stick/leather tarp/fireplace smoking rack, though this may require alternate recipes rather than just another tool. One of the big headaches is grinding up anything in a quern - it’s 45 minutes to make flour (plus 48 minutes if working from acorns), and 1 hour to make bonemeal/chitin powder. Making some liquid fertilizer can easily take weeks of grinding. I tuned it down to 10 minutes for each of those three recipes, which still takes days to pump out enough fertilizer for a decent sized farm. That might be too low, but a better solution would be to have some kind of windmill building that you can place which processes wheat type items the way the constructed kiln processes wood.

When it comes to farming, getting seeds is kind of strange. With 90 day seasons, there’s really no seeds to be found out in the world until Spring, and then it’s a mad dash to get to the fruit patches, gather seeds, and replant. I think a good solution would be to allow the player to get plantables by processing some of the harvested foods - buckwheat and wild herb seeds, rhubarb and wild vegetable sprouting pieces, and mutated poppy and dandelion stems. That would give the player a few staple crops to maintain if they’re unlucky with farms/gardening supply stores, and the yields could be tuned such that the non-foraged seeds are significantly higher yields. It would also be nice if the stock seeds were expanded (beans, in particular, can just be sown as-is), but I haven’t had the time to look at where exactly seed/growing plant information is stored yet. It would also be awesome if there was a way to take cuttings from fruit trees (or any trees, really) that you could plant elsewhere. They could take quite a while to mature into a full grown tree, but let you plant an orchard with enough patience.

There’s also a bunch of minor additions/tweaks that fill a few noticable gaps.
-Atlatls and a ‘rabbit stick’ throwing club to flesh out the early throwing game (between rocks and forging your own throwing axes)
-Wooden dowels to replace nails on some of the simpler wooden crafts/constructions (make them time consuming to craft to balance)
-A pine needle ‘rollmat’ that’s pretty bulky
-A nerf to the stock funnel as it’s massive (I brought its radius down from 380 to 125), and added a bulky large funnel specifically designed to catch rain (with a 300 radius).
-An electric firestarter (100 batteries, copper wire, scrap metal, 50 charges) autolearned with no skills to help kickstart your way into electronics.
-More withered plants from foraging (especially when you fail to gather anything). A recipe to make a rope counterparts using withered plants.
-A way to gather small amounts of wild yeast from plants.
-A few low-tech vehicle parts (I added a size 20 water bladder using a large waterskin, for example).
-The survivor machete should probably be more difficult to make than it is (it’s only a blade, 150 duct tape, and 20 soldering iron charges). The naginata is in a decent place as you need a working smithy to assemble it.

I still have a few days left in spring, and I’m hoping to do a full year of testing (including farming) before really committing to any of the ideas, but if there’s any comments so far (especially when it comes to intended hard gating of crafting), again, please let me know!

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Just commenting to say that i aprove of all the things you are suggesting nice thinking.

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The problem is that the charcoal forge is craftable from metal, and there simply isn’t a stone forge.

And crucibles require specifically refractory ceramics, which aren’t exactly easy to find or process, and the CDDA clay seems to not be refractory. Same for forge, it also requires heat-resistant construction and heat-insulative lining (i.e. refractory bricks). Would be great to have a way to construct an actual forge, though.

Blacksmithing is EXTREMELY powerful already because you can make everything else with a hammer, a forge, and a fabrication book. I’d say gating it with book is good until another way to discover recipes instead of getting them handed to you on a blue-edge platter is added.

Constructed kiln can’t be fed charcoal and placed forge is fed differently. However, it’s presumably possible to just reuse the forge’s code, because it works on having the charcoal itemstack in the same tile, hidden - just make it use up visible itemstack of charcoal in the kiln. Oh wait, clay thing recipes don’t even use the fuel for charcoal kiln in the first place. I’ve made an issue on github for this, but presumably, what with fire requirement, the small kiln is placed over the fire (which is kinda silly). Meanwhile you could make them use fuel by switching the required tools to single brick_kiln plus fuel (charcoal) and renaming the brick kiln.

Poppy medicine is the weakest medicine with addiction on top, there’s no point in having it require high skills. I’m surprised it’s not autolearn, though.

Youuuu can’t really make sugar in New England without chemistry books to know how to process sugar beets into it, since it requires calcium hydroxide. You can’t, however, use up LOTS of honey (8:1 sweetwater-sugar ratio) to get sweet water, which is then can be made into sugar.

Case in point: constructed forge can be fed charcoal and used afterwards just fine, so you likely don’t need alternate recipes, just a tool using up more charcoal than smoker.

Needs to be upgraded to batch-discount system because it is not and it’s ridiculous to take an hour per every item when you can normally throw several at once into a quern. Something like half an hour for single powder, plus 5-10 minutes for every next one in a batch.

Buckwheat is straight out, it cannot grow on a commercial fertilizer used for everything else. And I’m under impression that seeds are to be found on farms and farming shops, and with plant selection process, you’d get entirely different crop seeds if you foraged.

You need saplings to plant. However, ability to grow saplings yourself, plus attaching cuttings to young/grown trees to make them into fruit trees would be great.

As balancing, cutting would probably disable the harvest for the year of cutting, so you can’t spread the tree and harvest it in same year.

[quote=“MormonPartyboat, post:1, topic:8768”]There’s also a bunch of minor additions/tweaks that fill a few noticable gaps.
-Atlatls and a ‘rabbit stick’ throwing club to flesh out the early throwing game (between rocks and forging your own throwing axes)[/quote]
There’s a PR with atlatls.

You need a TON of pine bough for it to be in any way comfy, not really transportable. Use improvised shelters.

Consensus seems to be that it’s not stock funnel which is massive, it’s makeshift/leather ones that are tiny for no sane reason.

You need to have a working smithy or to find a machete for survivor machete. Or to process a broadsword, which would be kinda silly, because broadsword is one of the strongest weapons. Or to find some other source of blades which I don’t know about.

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realy all you d need to gather rain would be an open barrel xD
i guess the issue with the funnels is that the devs are trying to balance it vs the “proper” funnel which is harder to make and should therefor be better?
maybe we should add a super hicghtech funnel tthat filters out everything but water so you gather only clear water directly from rain and have it funnel out other liquids that might come from the sky (like acid) if you so desire … hightech smartfunnel which runs on energy provided by the water thats running down the funnel xD

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You’re underestimating the power of high-tech greatly. You only need some graphene sheets and zero power (except to make said sheets) to filter everything but water - the lore issue is that water is saturated with Blob, and it would likely resist being filtered away from water.

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you d need some energy to power whatever decides to filter out acid into a diferent container or is there a ingenious solution to that that i did not consider?

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Again: graphene. H[sub]2[/sub]O passes, everything else doesn’t, with zero power applied to it.

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But i want it to seperate water and acid so i get both in different containers.
I guess i would have the acid left in the funnel itself? hmmm but its not convenient enough i am lazy and future tech should be lazyness afine

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Yup, which is why I modded one in using same approach as the charcoal kiln - making something portable is impossible without metalworking, but you should be able to construct one out of stone.

Neither existing recipe for forges or crucibles uses these (the current crucible recipe is sheet metal attached to a steel frame? seems excessively off the mark). I imagine that’s because while a need for those high end tools is true for proper modern metalworking, that kind of crafting is generally gated from the player. For melting down scrap metal into ingots and beating them into a shovel like a ye olde timey blacksmith, I don’t see a huge issue out of using ye olde timey facilities. And if there is an issue, I’d suggest it be split into tiered quality levels of forge/crucible rather than cranking up the requirements for blacksmithing, when blacksmithing is already not all that generally useful in a ‘normal’ game.

Everything else in the fabrication line, and a pile of recipes that require a swage and die set are autolearn. You can build forge, anvil, crucible, tongs, chisel, and know that you need a certain size die to make a certain item, but you don’t have the knowledge to make that die without a book.

Keep in mind, I’m in a (nearly) book-less situation to determine the line between what should be relegated to books (like almost all of electronics or chemistry) and what should be learnable on one’s lonesome. I’m firmly of the opinion that relatively simple basic tools (and the tools to make them) should be autolearn with a high enough skill, and most other things should absolutely be relegated to books. For example, pickaxes are not autolearn, while a collapsible entrenching tool is, and I’d argue the two should be switched. I can already make a shovel, and an entrenching tool is just a luxury.

That’s the general intent. I’d like to move the clay to the brick kiln rather than the charcoal kiln, then make a constructable alternative to the portable one. I’m not sure why the psuedo-item isn’t working, but I haven’t done much research on it yet. There may be a hilariously simple explanation.

I wouldn’t add a recipe to make sugar proper, just tweak some existing recipes to accept sweet items as an alternative when it makes sense. For example, the deluxe oatmeal recipe uses a sweetener and has 25 options. Sweeter fruit in particular can be dried and ground up or fruit juice can be boiled down into a syrup (and apple cider syrup in particular was used a lot along the east coast before cheap cane sugar became available). Rhubarb should be usable in a recipe other than dried fruit without access to proper sugar.

Yeah, that’d probably be the end implementation. Though, the constructed forge’s code is 10 kinds of wonky. The way it works (at least on the build that I’m playing), it holds a single number for how much charcoal’s inside it and you only have the option of overwriting it with however much charcoal’s in your inventory (up to 100). I forgot to add that in the OP (probably because I haven’t really tested it much beyond making a :expressionless: face at it) but it’s pretty strange.

I’d love that, but it’s far beyond my ability to do. In the interim, I just don’t think “it’s too easy to do one flour craft” is as big a problem as “it’s waaaaay too hard to batch 20 flour crafts” and would rather err towards making it too easy.

Again, .05 item spawn rate with size 1 towns. The idea of farming only being viable in a world with enough food where you don’t really need to farm is a strange one. I’m actually really anxious to get a farm going because of how little food is easily available in my game, and with almost 90 days of playing and travel spanning multiple map pages, I’ve found exactly one plantable seed, which was hemp and off a zombie. I’m not sure what you mean with the plant selection process - the idea would be you forage some wild vegetables, then cut some up to make a few ‘wild vegetable sprouts’ which are basically wild vegetable seeds. Then those would use the regular planting/growing framework except ideally there’d be a tag that reduces the plantcount such that found seeds are generally better. Wild veggies/wild herbs aren’t specific anyway, so some variety is to be expected.

Buckwheat could just be special cased to not take fertilizer if that’s important, but properly handling that really falls into a broader farming overhaul with like crop rotation and fertilizer types and plants that maintain a higher epoch when harvested.

Yeah, I’d like a more involved sapling process in general - maybe make flower pots of various materials and use them to move saplings around, or make constructed flower decorations out of bluebells/dahlias.

Huh, I didn’t realize improvised shelters covered comfort and warmth, for some reason I thought they only provided a roof over your head. Well, that covers that.

The stock one has a 2.5 foot diameter, if I did the math right. I’ve never seen one that big outside of video of a food processing plant, and I was under the impression that the vanilla funnel was just a regular kitchen funnel (since it’s treated that way in the loot tables). If it’s intended to be specifically a rain catching funnel, it’d need to be pruned back to only really being available in milsurp or survival stores and the description could be made more explicit.

You can make a survivor machete out of a makeshift machete, a 0 skill craft that takes nothing but a blade and duct tape. But even if you eliminate that, I’d say it’s still too easy. What I’d suggest is keeping the materials as-is, but require some actual forge work like the naginata rather than a piddly 20 charges of a soldering iron. That’d keep it relatively easy without being a free high end weapon.

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Current crucible recipe basically implies that you’re heat-welding scraps into desired shape, instead of any smelting.

Empirically, it holds a single, hidden, actual ‘charcoal’ item which is used as its “charge”. You can check that by mapediting a forge in, placing some charcoal into it, and mapediting it out without removing charcoal: it will appear on that tile. Same with the reverse, editing a forge over charcoal stack will result in forge that “has” charcoal amount of the stack.

It’s just an optional recipe variable, and is explained in json docs on github.

I mean that with wild veggies, you’d not be able to get normal seeds. A misunderstanding, as it were. Maybe it’s somehow possible to forcibly spawn some seeded plants on farms as well, bypassing itemspawn, as well, so there’s no “low itemspawn results in no seeds” issue - but I don’t know how.

Pretty much a game balance issue. Nothing stops you from making a HUGE funnel yourself, but that would drive the value of scavenged funnels into the ground.

You can’t make makeshift machete without a blade, and blades can only be made by player with a forge - or from a broadsword (by damage and speed, the best slashing weapon in the game) or machete (…akhem). Or disassembled from a lawnmover, in which case you’ll need a wrench and the lawnmover itself first, and they’re not exactly everywhere.

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water isn t actually a scarce resource ingame. and realisticly could be gathered from rain in a lot of different ways which i am to lazy to list.
we should realy consider droping the funnel madness cause it aint worth the unrealism (is that a word).
Cleaning that water is a bit harder to do then just getting water.

edit:

I usualy only use funnels so i got the water readily near me without having to walk to another source.

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Yes, and the point is that the current crucible recipe doesn’t use any kind of special heat treatment. If you can make the current crucible by welding some quarterpanels to a frame, then it’s not a huge drop in technology or reasonableness to switch that to a fired clay crucible.

Check the code. IANA programmer, but it looks like the issue I ran into comes from here:

if (amount != 0) { item it(ammo->id, 0); it.charges = amount; m->add_item( examx, examy, it ); }
That smells like it simply replaces the existing amount of items with the new amount, which is exactly what I experienced. I loaded probably 400 charcoal into the forge in batches of 40 (due to max carry limitations), then looked at the forge and it held exactly 40 charcoal. Then I loaded 20 more in, and it held exactly 20. I imagine the line should be “it.charges += amount;”, with a check earlier to make sure that the math doesn’t put more in than the max amount, something like if((it.charges + amount) > it.max_charges) {amount = it.max_amount - it.charges}.

Huh, never knew that existed. Welp, another problem solved.

With some vegetables, you can plant a portion of it and it will regrow itself. You can try it at home with the rooting bit of an onion or the same for celery and lettuces. I always imagined the wild vegetables as leafy greens, so being able to replant the stems would make sense (same with herbs and rhubarb). And because it’d be kind of a pain to keep track of which celery or lettuce or whatever has had its stem harvested, I’d just consume some veggies and spit out some plantable bits.

That was the intent - nerf the existing ones, add a custom built one with a large radius designed for water collection. There really isn’t much point to a funnel at this point anyway, right now. Water’s just too ubiquitous. Once acid rain is back, it’ll be nice, but yeah. Just a minor nit that bothered me ever since I looked up the radius math for some forgotten reason.

I’ve never had a problem finding lawnmowers, since they drop off zombies as part of one of the tool item groups. In my world, I cleared out a megastore and it had exactly five things on all its shelves combined. The zombies, however, had two lawnmowers on their bodies (and piles of tools, lighters, etc). That’s a big reason I turned the city size down as well as the spawn size - zombies are generally ridiculous piles of loot.

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That needs to have the rarity of clay vs. rarity of metal assessed, though I’m all for this change because CDDA assumes all “steel” to be the kind required to particular recipe, why not clay as well?

Different parts of how it’s working. I’m looking at how it stores the charge, you’re looking at how it gets it in the first place. EDIT: speaking of which, given it’s a placed forge, why not commit a rampant ignorance of fire code and have it store much more charcoal than the portable version, as implied “piled up next to it” as opposed to “already inside and only needing ignition”?

What’s the point of nerfing existing custom funnels, though? Just increase their craft-price a bit and set the radius to something more reasonable than 85 units, but less than what you can theoretically get because you’re overlapping or sewing together, not melting plastic or waterproofing the leather.

That’s random, though. It took me 250-ish kills to get a single hammer drop, and I’ve seen no lawnmovers on them. Actual loot pinatas are (random) NPCs because they can have much more than one item.

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Pretty much my thoughts.

If I’m reading it right, this problem impacts both. I.e., after shoveling in 300 coal in batches of 10, if you then mapedit the constructed forge out, then I think it would leave only 10 coal on the ground. Like I said, though, I’d want to test it more before I hop over and submit a formal bug report, it was just some strange behavior that made me nervous about appropriating the functionality of the placed forge as-is.

RE: adding more space to it, I don’t think I can with relatively simple tweaking. From what I can tell, the properties of the placed item are derived from the pseudo_item which also determines what recipes it’s used in. The only way I could see to do it without monkeying around in the code would be to create another item (call it Large Forge) which has a higher charge amount and gets appended to every crafting recipe that uses the regular forge with the same ammo, and then tag the constructed forge furniture with large forge as its pseudo item. Really, really inelegant. And that’s not really a big deal because of how awesome the constructed charcoal kiln is - in a few days I was able to pump out thousands and thousands of charcoal. I have no idea how I would be able to use charcoal faster than I can produce it with anything buildable at a forge.

I wouldn’t nerf the custom ones. Right now the vanilla funnels have a radius of 380mm, and the makeshift/leather funnels have a radius of 85mm. That works out to the makeshift ones returning 1/20th the water of a found one. I’d tune the vanilla down to, say, 125mm so it’s still superior, leave the current crafted at 85, and then add a craftable large funnel that would use plastic bags or leather hides or something waterproof that would have a radius of 300.

Certainly. I’m just saying that the survivor naginata and the survivor machete should both take about the same amount of capability to make out of their parts, and right now they’re reeeeeeally far apart unless you’re hilariously unlucky with loot. For the naginata, you need a fully operational smithy, because it’s part of the final combine. For the machete, you don’t.

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It then would have only 10 coal “inside” as well. Also, you’re late.

Look for battery modifier code, they change the maximum charges of specific instances of items (and in case of the ATOMIC! one, the fuel as well). And then it’s just a matter of making forge-crafting add that modifier and remove it on smashing/disassembly.

Or just have the code ignore the max charges of the kiln item since you’re not even storing the charge in it. For the maximally silly case (storing anything on that tile) just use actual, visible items on that tile (and permit items being placed there, like with built charcoal kiln). Then matter of max charges gets reduced to matter of tile volume, which is in jsons.

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How would you find a dependable light source in the wilderness?

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Huzzah. Cigars for all.

I would not trust myself to do anything more complicated than adding an else if case or tweaking some hard coded numbers. My coding experience is two high school years of Pascal almost a decade ago and a few weekends of playing with C# in Unity. I can sort of vaguely read the code when it’s straightforward, but that’s more from the context than actually knowing what anything does.

I’m hoping to change that, but ~~

I’m torn between “praise the sun”, “forest fires”, or “get to bed like a responsible adult”

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Actually, scratch the “use clay straight”. Even when assuming that all clay in New England is fire clay, to make fireproof bricks you’ll need to make grog first by baking said clay, then grind it down (which is notoriously unhealthy), and only after that you can mix the grog with the fire clay to bake actual refractory bricks or crucibles.

Oh, and you also need fireproof mortar (either grog-refractory clay mix with more clay than for bricks, or liquid glass mixed with either vermiculite/perlite powder or some two things I don’t remember).

And baking the bricks requires the same temperatures as those provided by insulating with them, so IRL you’d be stuck with at least three iterations of baking before you can use them in a forge.
Or building a separate, complicated (wood)gas injection system to make the brick pile have the required heat by being in the ignition/heat focus while the rest of furnace is cooler and can handle it.
Either case, not really something you can do easily without a book.

P.S. You don’t really need smelting and casting to shape metal, though, as this video of making a sword out of a bunch of scissors demonstrates. Bonus points: actual medieval smithing shown, with master smith pointing the target with smaller hammer and apprentice/hammerer hitting it with a sledge.

PRAISE THE SUN!

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Modded in a wood smoker construction. It inherits the issues with the constructed forge, but since that’s related to iexamine::reload_furniture, once that’s fixed they’ll both work dandy. I did notice that smoking already has a batch time factor (and one sharp enough that I might just outright steal it for the quern recipes). The only headache is that the smoking recipe actually consumes 3 skewers a pop, which seems tedious and stupid. I may tweak the recipe to not require it, since that’s only really applicable when smoking without a smoker proper (i.e., over a regular fire), which is currently impossible. The charcoal smoker should have its grates to lay items on, and the constructed one would have its poles to drape items over.

While making my basement, it has come to my attention that digging with a pickaxe is hilariously miserable compared to digging with a jackhammer. It takes over an hour per tile while a jackhammer takes less than a minute, and manual digging burns additional hunger, thirst, and fatigue while also causing minor amounts of pain. The issue isn’t so much that mining is harder than it should be, it’s more that a jackhammer seems unreasonably fast and easy - mining out an area the size of a survival shelter basement with a pickaxe would probably take weeks while using a jackhammer it would take maybe an hour or two. A longer term change that I’d love to see is to have the default tile type for the first subterranean z-level be some kind of rocky dirt rather than solid stone, with a reduction in effort to clear it (and no limestone). That’d be pretty conducive to making simple basements.

Farming seems like a pretty robust system for playing with - I was able to mod in some mushroom stems that acted like mushroom seeds and made them mature hilariously fast. I can easily add the wild plants into farming, but until I reduce the yields they’re probably going to be a bit imbalanced. The easy way to do it is to tweak them so they take longer to grow. A slightly harder way to do it would be to add a flag on the seed (“LOWYIELD”) and adding an if/then to the end of the plantcount calculation (though I’ll need to figure out how to point to seed flags in iexamine::aggie_plant lul). Now it’s just a matter of scrounging up the time to throw together some items and recipes and all that to test it.

Some minor thoughts:
-A stone adze makes a bit more sense than a wire saw for wood sawing.
-Herbalism will require a mortar and pestle (carved out of a log), and largely produce teas or ointments (which can both spoil, though it’ll take a while). It’ll be balanced against a high survival skill.
-Handfuls of dandelions should probably spoil as well.
-Bluebells are REALLY useless :(. I may add them as an alternative to bone glue, since apparently the sap can be used as an adhesive. At least dahlias have the roots to use.
-I took a gander at the atlatl PR that’s on github and I think I’d prefer to go the other way with it and just use the gun framework and atlatl specific dart ammo. Throwing axes with an atlatl seems silly
-Shouldn’t be hard to add some decorative potted plants with clay pots of some sort. Not sure if they should be constructed as furniture or items but either way my cabin will be ~pretty~
-I should add mushroom wine.

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Switch them to tools instead. Not sure if it’s capable of having “need X of these or no dice” set, though.

[quote=“MormonPartyboat, post:19, topic:8768”]-Herbalism will require a mortar and pestle (carved out of a log), and largely produce teas or ointments (which can both spoil, though it’ll take a while). It’ll be balanced against a high survival skill.
-Handfuls of dandelions should probably spoil as well.[/quote]
Tea spoils the same way as honey, as in, store it in something that SEALS and it will never go unusable, so there isn’t a point to make it spoil in the game, either. Other dried herbs spoil the same way and will last long enough time to not warrant making them spoil.
Speaking of spoiling, CDDA needs an icebox (and by extension, ice) as a low-tech alternative to fridge.