A simple implementation change to make this happen is to remove the installation property from CBMs, and add a CBM installer item that you load the CBM into, and is also consumed when the CBM is installed. Obviously we’d also need to add spawns of this item.
This would makes labs and medical facilities desirable in a new way (labs are already very desirable, so I’d be excited most for reason to risk hospitals (I have yet to need them for broken limbs)), in that you could get CBM’s from your zombies as per nomal, but be unable to install them without exploring these places. Installers could be a rare find on mobs, potentially, but why would you carry an installer if you weren’t getting something installed with it? Maybe medically-themed zombies would be best suited for such a role.
Something to keep in mind - the only reason installing an Integrated Toolset is a safe trick that early is because you won’t have any other CBMs yet, and so the “lose a bunch of CBMs” result is basically irrelevant.
It’s a lot harder to eliminate that result than just the “bad bionic” results.
But it’s an effective demonstration that CBMs could do with being a bit more troublesome to install all the same.
To really up the ante include uninstallers. Botched CBMs shouldn’t be the sort of task a first aid kit is up for. ((Maybe another use for the hospitals automated doctor?))
Speaking of it would be great if we could kidnap Mr. Stemcell and set him up elsewhere.
Ah, this came up again. I posted a suggestion about this in an oldish CBM improvement thread in the suggestions forum. Here’s the slightly modified suggestion:
I would think it makes sense for bionics to be installed as they are now, but you would require some groundwork to be done first. Now, this groundwork would need to be of varying complexity depending on what you want to install. For purely passive bionics such as the ally plating or the integrated tool set you would only need a basic bionics container, basically preparing your relevant body part for implantation.
I think that no bionics groundwork should be possible to self-administer without machine help (or possibly NPC help in the mists of the future). The basic container groundwork could be performed by a fairly simple machine/robot found in hospitals, doctors offices, pharmacies and perhaps even more widespread places, like shopping malls and large offices perhaps. There could maybe even be a portable unit for this. I envision that the machine would target one body part of your choosing to install a container. Any given body part could then take a certain number of containers or slots, depending on its size, so that the torso could contain more slots than one of the hands. This potential slot amount could also possibly be reduced by certain mutations, but that’s for the future. A certain bionic would then take a certain amount of slots. E.g. the tool set would take one entire hand and the fusion blaster arm would take an entire hand and an entire arm while the blood filter would take one torso slot.
For bionics that need power you would need a central power routing system. This would be a one-time thing that could only be installed by slightly more complex machines, maybe restricted to hospitals, pharmacies and doctor’s offices.
The next step would be neurally activated bionics such as the blood filter or the alarm system. These would need a spinal neural interface, something that can only be done by fairly complicated machines, maybe restricted to the ones in hospitals. This category would include bionics that can’t reasonably be assumed to be possible to activate through some external button or specific normal muscle use.
Finally the offensive, experimental or otherwise military bionics would need a military grade neural interface/power routing system. These would only be installable in labs or high-security military installations. These bionics would be things like chain lightning, artificial night or teleporter.
The machines themselves could then use batteries as power and possibly need resources for the procedure, based on balancing. I’m thinking success should be guaranteed with the machines, having to endure random chance after actually finding one of them is a bit much, I think. Random injury with the CBM installation itself could still be there, I suppose, but with an underlying framework with built-in limitations I don’t really see the need.
Of course, this system could be implemented in whole or in parts. The slots per body part system could be thrown out based on personal preference, or you could have less/more tiers of groundwork needed.
I realise that coming here with suggestions without actually contributing myself is a bit sleazy, but take this for what it is: a suggestion for anyone that finds it interesting and is capable of implementing it to use and modify to their heart’s extent!
few ideas for cbms:
some realy simple cbms will come ready to instal like now (power storage)
after learning electronics, first aid and some book about robotics player can craft medical bots what can instal cbms
there should be different versions of bots some are cheap and easy to make but cant instal advenced cbms
and some more advenced what can be get only in hospital but cant still instal best bionics (time dialation, teleportation, cloak)
best medical bots will be crafted and recipe can be in labs bot from hospital is one of components and can install all cbms
all bots should run on batteries or cells but should alslo have option to be atached to car and run on car battery instaling cbms should alslo take time
I think the trouble with CBM’s being so easy is how much easier certain ways to play the game are. I’ve been running ranged for the longest time, while my friend would run melee. For a while at least, archery was basically garbage (slow to grow, low damage) and it was even hard to just find the books in order to make the arrows, while bullets aren’t easy to get if you can’t kill bots and things. My buddy on the other hand can just beat things and become near invincible, and then they even added quarter staves and things and shockers became a joke for him. Meanwhile my arrows took a ton of them (using non-renewable ingredients and time) and my dodge/melee would be low because I wasn’t just slapping things to death easily. Within the same time frame, he would be about twice as far into the game, simply because of how mindlessly aggressive he could be. For me, electronics was one thing I would look forward to, to make survival easier and give me some stability. For him, they were so worthless he preferred mutations (he would cover time so easily he’d have a fully decked out car while I was still getting up my mechanics skill).
@Silfurdreki
Who are you to discriminate what I call arms, legs, torso, brain, etc? If I want to have an internal furnace on top of an vapor-extractor, blood purifier, supported by an artificial spinal column and bionic legs, why should I have to look human? Cisbiological scum.
[quote=“pingpong, post:28, topic:7684”]@Silfurdreki
Who are you to discriminate what I call arms, legs, torso, brain, etc? If I want to have an internal furnace on top of an vapor-extractor, blood purifier, supported by an artificial spinal column and bionic legs, why should I have to look human? Cisbiological scum.[/quote]
as a mele character with guns i tell that i was commonly using crosbows and steel bolts and now i use reflex recurve bow and heavy wooden arrows both things are realy powerfull (and bow is fast) it saved my live so many times
as a mele character with guns i tell that i was commonly using crosbows and steel bolts and now i use reflex recurve bow and heavy wooden arrows both things are realy powerfull (and bow is fast) it saved my live so many times[/quote]
If you’re using arrows primary you basically have to be beginning or mid summer before you can get to that level, unless you’re really lucky. It’s easy enough to get high archery and recipes if you’re meleeing things and then just read the books to get up levels, but to actually increase the levels and primary bow was/is excessively difficult. I’ve talked it over with a dev before, less than 1% skill gain per arrow while using fast learned at level 2 or 3 was intentional.
[quote=“pingpong, post:28, topic:7684”]@Silfurdreki
Who are you to discriminate what I call arms, legs, torso, brain, etc? If I want to have an internal furnace on top of an vapor-extractor, blood purifier, supported by an artificial spinal column and bionic legs, why should I have to look human? Cisbiological scum.[/quote]
Go ahead, knock yourself out. Though I’d be careful about replacing the brain, I read somewhere that it’s important for something or other.
[quote=“Silfurdreki, post:32, topic:7684”][quote=“pingpong, post:28, topic:7684”]@Silfurdreki
Who are you to discriminate what I call arms, legs, torso, brain, etc? If I want to have an internal furnace on top of an vapor-extractor, blood purifier, supported by an artificial spinal column and bionic legs, why should I have to look human? Cisbiological scum.[/quote]
Go ahead, knock yourself out. Though I’d be careful about replacing the brain, I read somewhere that it’s important for something or other.[/quote]
This just reflects the issues those with mutations will have in finding spots to install bionics. In particular, the rather amorphous slime mutation tree might prove tricky. Especially since the last time I checked, mutations descriptively altered limb count, but damageable sections of the body never changed. Could be wrong now, but it’d be weird if some things didn’t add up when you installed things.
I always imagined CBMs like little egg-shaped metal containers where one half of the egg is the cbm itself an the other half the install-robot. The install robot however needs input and set up and thats why a high elec. comp. And 1st aid skill is required.
For the diamond cornea cbm for example you’d have to place the robot over your eye socket and check beforhehand that it sits precisely on the right spot, cuts deep enough but not too deep etc.
And then you push the Start button and pray that everything was right…
Now butchering a dead cyborg would only yield the cbm half of the cbm and not the installer robot…
[spoiler][quote=“Rookie, post:34, topic:7684”]I always imagined CBMs like little egg-shaped metal containers where one half of the egg is the cbm itself an the other half the install-robot. The install robot however needs input and set up and thats why a high elec. comp. And 1st aid skill is required.
For the diamond cornea cbm for example you’d have to place the robot over your eye socket and check beforhehand that it sits precisely on the right spot, cuts deep enough but not too deep etc.
And then you push the Start button and pray that everything was right…
Now butchering a dead cyborg would only yield the cbm half of the cbm and not the installer robot…[/quote][/spoiler]
not only you but in my mind it was self linstaling box shaped robot what need to be configured and placed in right postion
Why not have a machine called an AutoSurgeon or something like that, which is required to install a CBM? I’m imagining it as that big machine in Prometheus that the main character used to C-section herself, a large immobile device in a lab or hospital that you have to put your CBM into, then get in and activate to have it installed. Miniaturized CMB installer could be some kind of rare coveted ubertech item that you install in your vehicle.
Getting major surgery on the go from these little cans seems very… I dunno… gamey to me.
I like the installer machine in hospitals idea, maybe make said machine up the success rates?
need to get into hospitall on other side of world to instal 1 power storage? why not medical bots like in deus ex (but not free healing for balance) just get control laptop and make him follow you (without this should be ignoring and standing still) and leave it in your base
Arguably, one could keep the ability to self-install with ample medical skill, but re-work the risks to be absurdly higher for appropriate CBM’s. Like the diamond cornea implant, or the one that goes inside your heart (blood filter?). Those two (and others, as determined by logic and balance needs) could have risks of failure and harm so high that you really should seek some external device/npc assistance to aid in installation. Unless you’re nuts and don’t mind gambling on an 80% failure rate even with high skills, say.
It would leave players the option of taking extreme risk of self-installation for the hardmode CBM’s, or the very different risk of finding the safer installation means. By making the CBM’s installation means more of a really hard suggestion than a game-designed requirement, there is an awful sense of choice left intact in how one installs their CBM’s. This appeals to me.
It’s major surgery with potentially game-changing consequences. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect the player to travel to a medical or scientific facility. That being said, one could always put AutoSurgeons in common doctor’s offices if availability was a big concern.