Vehicle physics rework

Sorry to totally necro this but alternators actually can and do effect the performance of engines. Same with A/C compressors. They’re all hooked up to the main engine belt witch draws its power from the engine directly via the torque of the pistons. If you have a 100-300 HP car go start it up then turn the A/C on full blast while idling in park. Your RPMs will drop 50-200 below standard idle. This is why there are different types of alternators, a V-twin motorcycle engine would stall out if it tried to turn the alternator on a backhoe. The reasoning behind this is that heavier duty alternators have more powerful magnets and larger resistance. The capacitor doesn’t really matter too much in regards to the engine performance as it’s just there to help through power need spikes and drops, kinda like a mini-battery. Alternators also effect the engine more when under large power draw.

A diagram for you visual learners:

All that said, using a normal truck alternator you don’t see it effecting a V-12 more than an MPH or two even under heavy draw, but it would likely drop a inline V4 10-15 MPH top speed, or maybe more.

At the end of the day I thing the current system (O.C Cooper stable) of alternators is a great balance of realism and play.

That diagram makes me wonder, why don’t we have starters? It would be far better to have a bad starter then a bad engine that needs replacing in a car. Also could have different sizes to start different HP engines. Light V-Twin and below, Medium L4 to V6, Heavy up to V12+. Bigger starter takes more power to start the car, assuming the starter can start it at all. But maybe I am just thinking aloud.

Sure, but then why not include a radiator too? And the AC as a system? And the dome lights as at item?

Personally, I’d love it. But I’m a gearhead. Most people aren’t even sure what a starter is, it’d just be tedious part swapping for them.

That’s the thing with levels of realism. Not so long ago, I was thinking about axle F and R, because of driving back and forth through the wastes whilst doin’ 50 or more mph; no matter how good of a driver you are, off-road attempts backfire on the driveshaft and suspensions. So I had suggestions, but…

I imagine those abandoned, dented vehicles are a nightmare to run. A quarterpanel just hanging from the welds has a serious impact on overall speed, maneuverability and can be heard of from blocks and blocks away. Misshapen frames should steer the vehicle off track or make it highly unstable, slow and less responsive; missing ones should at least block the controls once in a while, whereas in real life those controls would get wasted in a matter of minutes.

As long as there isn’t a copious ammount of detail on the account of vehicle physics and a method of displaying these information to an in-game character with high enough Mecha skill, we can’t have this three-dimensional picture of CataDDA driving:

Preset – Customization – Performance

As for now, driving and enhancing the in-game rig is just a lot of fun, which is great regarding the ammount work put in for it to function this way. :slight_smile: Even when it’s WIP and doesn’t make a lost of RL sense, at least the ride is great.

[quote=“vultures, post:24, topic:8465”]That’s the thing with levels of realism. Not so long ago, I was thinking about axle F and R, because of driving back and forth through the wastes whilst doin’ 50 or more mph; no matter how good of a driver you are, off-road attempts backfire on the driveshaft and suspensions. So I had suggestions, but…

I imagine those abandoned, dented vehicles are a nightmare to run. A quarterpanel just hanging from the welds has a serious impact on overall speed, maneuverability and can be heard of from blocks and blocks away. Misshapen frames should steer the vehicle off track or make it highly unstable, slow and less responsive; missing ones should at least block the controls once in a while, whereas in real life those controls would get wasted in a matter of minutes.

As long as there isn’t a copious ammount of detail on the account of vehicle physics and a method of displaying these information to an in-game character with high enough Mecha skill, we can’t have this three-dimensional picture of CataDDA driving:
Preset – Customization – Performance

As for now, driving and enhancing the in-game rig is just a lot of fun, which is great regarding the ammount work put in for it to function this way. :slight_smile: Even when it’s WIP and doesn’t make a lost of RL sense, at least the ride is great.[/quote]

I really think that the current system is pretty good as far as gameplay vs realism goes, the only thing I would change is after taking apart one humvee (Which generally only takes one acy torch) I seem to have 8-12 mech skill, so mech is super trivial to train. The only thing I would tweak is adding more parts. I am a sucker for customization, and I want more!

If someone were to make a good guide on how do damaged parts affect driving in simple terms, I might add some of that.

For example, damaged quarterpanel increasing air drag - but how much?

The damaged frame affecting driving direction could also work. But then - would that be variable with time? Would the same frame always turn slightly left? Should that cause problems while driving straight or only when turning?

How does “responsiveness” affect a vehicle in video game mechanics term? Affect the cost of turning? Worse acceleration/deceleration (without affecting top speed much)?

Hmm. Will be interesting to see. Any tank-related trivia available for me to devour?

[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:26, topic:8465”]If someone were to make a good guide on how do damaged parts affect driving in simple terms, I might add some of that.

For example, damaged quarterpanel increasing air drag - but how much?

The damaged frame affecting driving direction could also work. But then - would that be variable with time? Would the same frame always turn slightly left? Should that cause problems while driving straight or only when turning?

How does “responsiveness” affect a vehicle in video game mechanics term? Affect the cost of turning? Worse acceleration/deceleration (without affecting top speed much)?[/quote]

Well, I will try to throw something together before I head to work, but be warned, I’m not really firing on all cylinders till noon.

Damaged quarterpanel-green to yellow: No noticeable effect. Red-Dark red:Small effect, mattering more for lighter cars. Simple way to script it: IF (Red damaged quarterpanels)=1/3 total mass of car, decrease top speed by .1 mph per panel. I personally think this is kinda silly because what you tend to find is damaged quaterpanels don’t matter in real life, unless you’re driving a smart car and the front end is somehow squished flat without killing you, the effect is negligible. Now, if CDDA had aircraft, that would be a completely different story. In real life, it isn’t so much the damaged quarterpanel as it is the other stuff it was smashed into when it was damaged. Bent fender? No big deal. It’s bent into the fenderwell and now you can’t turn? Big deal.

This is quarterpanel damage that will effect the operation of the vehicle.

Damaged frame is completely different story. A bent frame will generally cause wheels to become misalligned, which leads to uneven tire wear and usually “drift” or “guiding” from the vehicle, IE it pulling 5 degrees to the right constantly, with no operator input. This is a constant effect that will only become more pronounced with speed, not turning.

This is a bent frame from the front perspsective. Notice how one side sits about five inches shorter than the other?

One easy-ish thing to break in impacts is the drive shaft, to super simplify it it’s a rod that transfers the power from the engine to the axles.

Broken drive shaft:

But trying to make a custom dive shaft for a deathmobile base would be hell, and the longer they are the less it takes to snap them. They are absolutely a unique to each drive-train item. Probably want to leave those out unless we’re going full sim.

One thing that I have noticed is as long as the wheel can support the vehicle you can have any size/type of tire installed on your car. You can have a 55’ in roller drum on the same axle as a 13’ small wheel. Not sure how to make it fun but realistic however. I mean, Realistically you could have a set of 23’ armored wheels on the front and a set of 13’ small wheels on the back, just don’t go on any hills. :stuck_out_tongue: The main determining factor in real life is all cars have fender wells, so if you install oversize tires without lifting the the frame or body (Two very different styles of lift) away from the axles, you won’t be able to turn, or might not even be able to get the tire under the fender well.

I could go on, but I’ve gotta go earn my paycheck. Should be back in about 9 hours.

[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:26, topic:8465”]If someone were to make a good guide on how do damaged parts affect driving in simple terms, I might add some of that.

For example, damaged quarterpanel increasing air drag - but how much?[/quote]

That’s the thing, really; road vehicles are made with performance in mind, not misuse. We should be discussing roguelikes vs. an intrigueing reality spread in CataDDA, if you ask me.
I loved the idea of a typical vehicle concerning engine type, and maybe even design layout. It’s just not the same to slam right into the wall with a 0.85-ton Beetle, and ram into another car with a fully-loaded Pickup Truck.

Regarding the expansion, THIS should get into mainstream CDDA, and fully customiseable vehicles should be an official mod, BTW pending for improvement.

The damaged frame affecting driving direction could also work. But then - would that be variable with time? Would the same frame always turn slightly left? Should that cause problems while driving straight or only when turning?

Umm… You’re making a faulty assumption. :slight_smile:
With vehicle frames in mind, there is no certainty below a definite, yet considerable damage treshold. So, think “frames” instead of just “frame” when appealing to a broader public whilst talking about straight-line driving.
I can only agree that a dented vehicle shouldn’t be operated by total novices. No, sir - no way. :slight_smile:

How does "responsiveness" affect a vehicle in video game mechanics term? Affect the cost of turning? Worse acceleration/deceleration (without affecting top speed much)?

A Preset, meaning a typical car out there in our roguelike game, can have a poor Performance or a good one. It all depends on the ammount of Customization because, let’s face it, not that many new vehicles are out there on the streets of Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead.
Now, let’s consider dealing with everyday vehicle problems IRL. A good mechanic - assuming you’ve got your hands on a verbose one - will explain most of the things wrong with your vehicle. After the cataclysm, those guys are mostly Zombies. So – what do we do?

We should reorganize the “Repair” menu to fit the “Fix Issues” method of resolving vehicle trouble. (!)

[ul][li]Replacing a part shouldn’t be as difficult for an apprentice mechanic;[/li]
[li]Repairing an issue should consume enough skill, time and more resources.[/li][/ul]

If you use your neighbor hatchback’s front left panel as a scythe for Fungaloids and Ants, maybe it should become more difficult to operate properly - and not just yield a broken front light. Again, if you force that same car’s alternator into a Small Tree, a myriad of problems should appear in no time. Player character’s skill should determine if he/she is able to fix some, most of them or every single on of them.

Perhaps the single, most effective definition of a used car is its service notebook history. It’s a log about every major change done to a vehicle, and issue noted by mechanic(s). Maybe the driver should only be able to fix things he/she has already noticed?

I’d suggest playing a game called Automation. Very accurate car building thing.
Lots of interesting parts to take into consideration.