Unlock mutations as traits at character creation

[Duros]

[b]I was just wondering if folks would be interested in me uploading a copy of the mutations.json file where you could choose specific mutations at character creation. (Recent experimental build’s file)

[glow=green,2,300]Frankly I thought it was strange that this isn’t possible with a simple options menu tweak or something, to give us the option to let us choose mutations at the start.[/glow]

True there would be spoilers, or we could easily code in a new profession (in 4 mins I basically made a profession that has super regenerative abilities, sub dermal armour cbm’s, adamantium claws…). True we can just use the cheat debug menu, but I thought “coding takes us out the game, and most only go into the debug menu as a last resort”. At character creation people might just want an easy way to tweak, so I spent about 10 mins in the mutation.json and made ALL mutations choosable at character creation, from positive to negative traits, and just the ones that add flavour but otherwise do nothing.

The great thing is that in the JSON files the mutations already come with trait point values, and conflicting traits grey out in the creation menu just like the default “long sighted vs short sighted” traits do, really robust.
I just made a character that happened to have the “roomy shell” mutation (and only this), started the game in winter, really cold weather came in and thought “screw this, I’m cold” and withdrew into the shell, where I was cosy, and slept throughout the night…woke up being eaten by a zombie lol, but the shell held up against the attack and I managed to run away. I feel most mutations are self balancing, like the roomy shell mutation gives you a warm place to pull into with an activation option, and the shell can protect from damage when your inside it, but it also makes it so you can’t move when pulled inside, and you even use backpacks, severely cutting down on how much volume you can carry.

I’m just curious if there’s a want for me to upload the file, as far as I know all I can do is make it so you have to overwrite the mutations.json, there isn’t an easier way is there? :)[/b]

[railmonkey]

Mn. That’s what the Lab and Experiment scenarios were for, I thought. Instead of messing with mutations.json, you just go into scenarios.json, pull the “traits” line from one of those two scenarios, slap it on Evacuee and tweak it as you please. But really, just tweak Lab and Experiment. For myself, I already tack on a couple of extra mutations. Nothing game breaking. Just Feline Ears, Fluffy Tail and Long Tail. Because, c’mon. Canine Ears and Whiskers are already on the list. Gotta round it out.

[Duros]

Yeah but that’s to add preset mutations, not just add one or two mutations of your choice at the start, this way gives more flexibility, I for example chose roomy shell, short sighted and alpha intelligence as 3 “traits” in the character creation window, it took less than a minute to scroll down the list and chose those, just as I would any normal character creation.

[Duros]

I guess the point I’m trying to make is that what if someone wants a normal or even different scenario, what if someone wants to start with 3-4 mutations but instead of the lab start as the mall cop, firefighter or wilderness scenario? What if someone just wants the Evacuee scenario with the tweaked profession, but wants rat ears and the ability to burrow?

I just feel adding them as traits and not professions or scenarios adds absolute flexibility.

[railmonkey]

…Eh. I get what you’re saying, but there’s “flexibility”, and then there’s “wet noodle”. For me, any regular scenario game that I want to start with cherry-picked mutations is automatically a debug game in my mind. It jumps things all the way to mid/end-game, and that’s just boring. All it’s doing is pushing the time spent scrolling the debug mutation list to before world gen rather than after and legitimizing it. If you really want flexibility, then like I said, all you need to do is slap the “traits” line onto each scenario and drop the mutation IDs of your choice. As long as it’s there and has a few variables, it’s trivial to go in afterward and tweak it. Instead of having to wade through every last mutation to pick the ones you want, you start with a few that you know that you might want, then use the framework you’ve built to add onto them when the mood strikes you. ‘Ambitiously lazy’ is the phrase I’m thinking applies here.

[Pthalocy]

If there was a limitation on mutations taken at character creation that was separate from traits taken at creation? I dunno. I always felt the two were distinct categories. I’ll vote when I’m sober however, as that is likely the wiser option. I have feelings on whether or not having all the mutations available would just be a big mess of “too powerful at start” that I might word better when I’m not boozed. Too many ideas and too few words at the moment, this post is largely a reminder for my forum inbox.

What I can say is that I like the current game scenarios that have some mutations available, but not all. I feel scenario and mutation options ought to remain linked, so as not to spoil everything and give variety without giving unabated minmaxing options.

[Duros]

…Eh. I get what you’re saying, but there’s “flexibility”, and then there’s “wet noodle”. For me, any regular scenario game that I want to start with cherry-picked mutations is automatically a debug game in my mind. It jumps things all the way to mid/end-game, and that’s just boring. All it’s doing is pushing the time spent scrolling the debug mutation list to before world gen rather than after and legitimizing it. If you really want flexibility, then like I said, all you need to do is slap the “traits” line onto each scenario and drop the mutation IDs of your choice. As long as it’s there and has a few variables, it’s trivial to go in afterward and tweak it. Instead of having to wade through every last mutation to pick the ones you want, you start with a few that you know that you might want, then use the framework you’ve built to add onto them when the mood strikes you. ‘Ambitiously lazy’ is the phrase I’m thinking applies here.

Well the point is that the player self regulates, if you don’t want high end mutations at start then simply don’t choose them. I’m just all for giving the player choice, if they want to start with mutations because that’s fun for them then great, it’s all about choice. If cherry picking makes it too easy then moderate yourself and DONT cherry pick, show some self control dammit lol

[Duros]

[quote=“Pthalocy, post:6, topic:10220”]If there was a limitation on mutations taken at character creation that was separate from traits taken at creation? I dunno. I always felt the two were distinct categories. I’ll vote when I’m sober however, as that is likely the wiser option. I have feelings on whether or not having all the mutations available would just be a big mess of “too powerful at start” that I might word better when I’m not boozed. Too many ideas and too few words at the moment, this post is largely a reminder for my forum inbox.

What I can say is that I like the current game scenarios that have some mutations available, but not all. I feel scenario and mutation options ought to remain linked, so as not to spoil everything and give variety without giving unabated minmaxing options.[/quote]

But giving the player the choice if they WANT TO min/max is up to the individual, I have this on my build right now and it’s true that if you grab all the positive traits and mutations it’s not fun, but surely giving people the choice can be nothing but good :S

If you don’t want to start with mutations then don’t choose them but if you want the ability to eat grass without turning into a cow and having cloven feet and a huge body then why not? It just adds choice, people can regulate themselves.

That and it would be easy to make the mutations cost say 20-50 points so you could FORCE players to moderate, but we already have a setting in the options menu to allow infinite starting points for stats and skills, we all have that option but do we all max out characters at creation? No, we self regulate and know what would be too far

[troll_from_behind]

I always did wonder if the experimental really was worth 1 point, you don’t really get that much out of it, phelladorm and ursine night vision beign the best ones.
Could one tweak mutant-professions to allow picking from a wider range of traits?

[Duros]

[quote=“troll from behind, post:9, topic:10220”]I always did wonder if the experimental really was worth 1 point, you don’t really get that much out of it, phelladorm and ursine night vision beign the best ones.
Could one tweak mutant-professions to allow picking from a wider range of traits?[/quote]

I’m not sure, I’ll look into that

But really all what I’ve done is makes the mutations appear as selectable traits in the “Traits” page of character creation. I’ve personally never gone anywhere NEAR the 1000 point allowance for positive or negative Traits, even if I make “true night vision” worth say 75 points it’s still a drop in the ocean

[Duros]

I should probably in fact migrate this over to the “suggestions” forum?

(Not sure how to do that)

[kevin.granade]

No need to migrate for two reasons.
If you have actual content rather than an idea, the lab is the right place for it.
There has been a lot of discussion about this subject, we’re not unlocking mutations in general at character start. If you feel like packaging it into a mod that would be mergeable.