Eh , i kind of love mutations the way they are - unrealistic , but stupidly entertaining like gambling.
And i think good and bad mutations shouldn’t get balanced , so if it’s bad one , it’s fun and if it’s good one it’s extremely out of this world fun.
And most mutations do give you ugliness , check the wiki and you will see that it’s actually quite well balanced.
BTW , the spider mutations should give light eater trait because spiders can survive for some time without food.

I’ve actually been working on active mutations recently, I’ll be interested to see how this develops. Are you making it into a separate mod or are you going to add it into the main branch?

First off, you have a lot of free time. Second, oh shit, I have mods for like 3 different games (not counting this one) I forgot all about!


  1. Are cephalopods cold-blooded?
    -No. IIRC, most marine life is warm blooded.

  2. What is the slime supposed to be? A very fast thing - or a very slow, implacable thing?
    -You ever get spit on by a llama? It’s like that.

  3. Does anyone know anything about rod cells and cone cells in your eyes? Which are used for movement? Which are used for color? Which are used in night vision? Would an increase in the cells responsible for night vision cause a reduction in the ability to see movement or the ability to see color?

    -The rod and cone cells function relatively the same, but with a specialization in a certain light level. They also vary in their ratio based on where you live. The rods, however, are very sensitive to light, but this comes at the expense of some detail and color (you can still tell bright colors in the dark, but all dark colors are varying shades of black). If you increase the number of rods, it would have no adverse effect unless taken to an absurd level.

  4. What possible benefits do slit nostrils provide? Environmental protection? Protection from diseases? Faster underwater swimming or something?

    -They allow more efficient air flow, at the expense of also making them a very quick way to lose precious fluids and to take in unwanted matter. You would NOT want them if you are even semi-aquatic unless you have very active mucus glands (which would pretty much nullify the benefits of nose slits unless the glands can be turned on and off on a whim)

  5. Can NPCs and enemies catch diseases?


1 ~ Cephalopods are exothermic (cold blooded) like most aquatic creatures (aquatic mammals being the primary exception) and so their bodies are roughly the same temperature as their surrounding environment.

2 ~ Which slime? The blob monsters?

3 ~ Rod cells are low-light photorecptors, their purpose is to enable creatures to see in dark conditions. Cone cells are bright light photoreceptors which are primarily responsible for color vision and visual acuity (ability to discern details) but having more of one doesn’t necessarily cause a drop in the efficacy of the other, since they vary in quantity from one individual to the next. This is why some people have better night vision than others, or why some of us can have difficulties perceiving certain colors.

4 ~ The ‘slit nostrils’ mutation increases your ugliness stat by three and increases mouth encumbrance by one because, according to the description, they make breathing more difficult.

5 ~ Nope, the player is currently the only one who can catch diseases.

Well, my incorrectness on the first only proves the point that I have super mega cramming skills for AP biology. I would probably completely fail if I took it now :P.

Ah well. I never have to take it again, so, stuff it. It doesn’t really matter anymore.


Unrealistic? Yes. Fun?

Unquestionably so.

Good question.

Re: what does light sensitive do - it makes you hurt in sunlight. Doesn’t grant night vision.

HNV shouldn’t reduce perception in daylight, although double glare effects is a good idea.

Hollow bones and light bones shouldn’t reduce hp.

Ah, if you’re removing glass jaw and bad back, then they might as well reduce hp.

Be warned, you probably ought to test your changes on 7.1 or even experimental builds, as a lot was changed.

Triple/quadruple glare is too much.

That…is a LOT of unilateral changes. I’d seen the title and thought this might have been looking for menu-based mutations, not jobbing over the entire system.

If nothing else, I’d ask that you get existing mutations categorized first, and tying everything together like that seems like a great way to make Robust Genetics obsolete. Oppose.

Well, I’m glad that you don’t wish to be considered for mainline.

I like Robust Genetics…because I like mutating good traits, and not bad ones. I’m not particularly fond of mushing all the traits together such that every trait carries both bonuses and penalties: part of the whole mutation thing is that characters can get weird results. It’s called “mutation roulette” for a reason.

As for the Final Fantasy, uh, non sequitur: I don’t play FF and don’t consider it relevant here. Robust Genetics cannot be switched off or swapped out, nor does it prevent you from obtaing any other trait during the game. Paying character points for Robust Genetics does indeed prevent one from spending those points elsewhere BUT is also insurance against mutagens: if the dart gun critter hits you, you get significantly radiated, you consume a mutagen, or for whatever other reason mutate, you’ve got good odds that you’re gonna come out OK enough.

If thus investing in my characters’ long-term prospects is considered bad form, well, I hope you don’t spend points on IN, for starters.

You don’t need git to grab experimental builds - just go to http://en.cataclysmdda.com/ and click one of the links under the heading experimental builds.

Would something that reduces the chance of all mutation from radiation, marloss berries, misinstalled bionics, and anything I missed (please tell me) work?

Yeah that was a bad analogy on my part since a bad mutation at the wrong time (high thirst while fighting a rat king) can kill you. But I think something that reduces the chance of mutation altogether works both tactically (insurance) and strategically (you don’t need purifiers, royal jellies, or as much environmental protection when exploring radioactive areas) if there really aren’t any good or bad mutations.

Could you explain your reasoning on that? From what I understand, intelligence is a somewhat situational but still fairly useful stat to spend points on, especially in the long term (reading, learning skills, recovering rusted skill levels, crafting, working with computers, installing bionics).

It’s not investing in the long term that’s bad; it’s investing so much in the long term that you severely handicap yourself in the short run. It’s the gameplay mechanics that result from playing around that short-term handicap that I don’t like, because it requires that I min/max, grind, and powerplay to overcome the handicap. I’d rather not have the handicap in the first place. If that means I have to reduce the long-term benefits of something in order to justify eliminating the short-term handicap, so be it. I can live with that.

Some ideas for starting traits:

-good and bad effects of drugs and alcohol last twice as long

morale cap traits
I can probably do these myself.

[spoiler]*manic depressive

  • halves the cap at which you experience both good and bad morale effects


  • double the cap at which you experience both good and bad morale effects[/spoiler]

stat cap traits
These are not possible right now. I’m curious what you think of modifying the high stat cap. Also how would I gray out all the other high stat cap traits whenever one of these is chosen? How would that work with points already spent on stats? Would it have to reset them or something?

[spoiler]*naturally gifted athelete // musclehead - you think with your body, not your head
-Good: change the high stat cap for str and dex from 14 to 20
-Bad: change the high stat cap for int and per from 14 to 8

-good: change the high stat cap for int and per from 14 to 20
-bad: change the high stat cap for str and dex from 14 to 8

*persistant // you’re not the best at anything, but you just can’t quit
-good: negate body part low hp penalties and pain penalties
-good: halve hunger and thirst penalties to morale and stats (if the latter exist)
-bad: change the high stat cap for all stats to 8
-bad: reduce the skill learning rate to 75% of it’s current value

-good: stat caps for all stats are 20
-bad: starting hp is reduced to 25% (or maybe 33%, or 50%)[/spoiler]

morale modifying traits
I can probably figure out how to do these on my own.

-gain 1 morale every time you attack, capped at 20 morale
-high adrenaline doubles the amount of morale you gain from an attack to 2, and doubles the cap to 40 morale

-gain one morale every consequtive 5 minutes spent you are in a plain, forest, or swamp tile, capped at 20 morale
-animal empathy doubles the morale gained to 2 per 5 minutes, and doubles the cap to 40

*athlete //maybe runner instead
-gain one morale every 5 minutes spent moving, capped at 20 morale
-parkour doubles that to 2 morale every 5 minutes, and doubles the cap to 40

*swimmer //you are at home in the water
-gain one morale every consequtive 10 minutes spent in a pool, shallow water
-gain one morale every 5 minutes spent in deep water
-both are capped at 20 morale total
-some trait or another doubles the morale gained and the cap

-gain one morale every 5 minutes spent reading, capped at 20 morale
-fast reader doubles that cap to 40, and doubles the amount of morale gained to 2 every 5 minutes

-gain one morale every 5 minutes spent crafting, cooking, building, etc, capped at 20 morale
-fast learner doubles that to two morale every 5 minutes and doubles the cap to 40 morale[/spoiler][/quote]


If you want something that works for you: that’s your call, you don’t need to ask me.

If you want to mess up mainline: I rather like seeing my character develop. Having everything bleah’d down isn’t going to work. Mutations are one of the reasons I got into Cata in the first place. Making them all “balanced” and non-effectual runs the wrong way for my taste.

I don’t consider my character build problematic, nor do I feel that finding workarounds is necessarily a bad thing. You play your way, I play mine.