Throwing of Random junk and you; a Primer

Game Talk The Drawing Board
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From-

So this topic is a question of items we could throw that do an amount of damage more than the average junk; such as a stick compared to a meat cleaver. These should perhaps not have the same value when used as a thrown item.

Please feel free to suggest items that should do more than average damage when thrown at a creature. Also suggest how much damage on a scale of 0-10(0 being no damage but may weaken stamina to a 10 which maybe instantly lethal). Sorry in advance. I don’t understand the damage ratios for the game to provide exact damage levels.

Head shots are naturally going to be more severe. So the implied harm of the item in general will just be more severe in the case of a head shot.

No particular order:

-Meat Cleaver (4-6)= Seems pretty lethal in proper hands. But even in unskilled hands it would do harm.
-Pitch Fork (5-6)= This unwieldy form when thrown would be a lucky to hit at all item. medium-high damage?

I had a list going with blunt objects. But I think that most should be standard damage based on weight.

Should all sharp objects have x damage based upon their own weight? More damage based upon slashing+ a possible bleed effect?

2

seems to me that pitch fork should have more range of damage than that.

Not sure how much stuff needs specialized damage

3

No so much a list of special damage as is a list of a little extra.

In fact. maybe the numbers should just be a percentage stacked on top of the standard damage they normally would do.

I think the idea was, that every object has damage only based on their weight value. So a heavy object would do more damage than a potato or something like that.

Suggestions? So items should do a little more damage than comparing a brick to a pitch fork if you were to have either thrown at you.

Perhaps a multiplier? Knives anf sharp object get a standard increase? I dunno. Not sure. I usually have a ton of ideas but I’m a little busy and I have to help some one fix a car. So >_>

Would be great if others chimed in on this one. Oh and should bricks do a little extra for the sharp corners?

4

Bricks should do more due to density. The code ought to be checking weight AND volume, rather than just weight. (which I think is what it’s doing now, since golf clubs are OP)
A brick isn’t terribly aerodynamic, but if you can huck it at someoen and hit them, it carries a ton of inertia and puts it into a small area.
(I’ve heard tell from family members third-hand legends of the “brick fights” that used to go on in the ghetto in Missouri way back when, resulting in broken bones and such. I don’t know how much stock to put in those stories, but I know a rock hurts pretty bad if you get hit with it, so I can only imagine what a brick would do.)

5

Mmm, yes. That is what I was thinking too. I think that a brick would be rather difficult to toss at a specific path. But it could certainly ring somethings or some ones bell to be certain if it hit. I imagine I could chuck one across an average room. So perhaps 7-10 feet may be a reasonable 50/50 toss up to hit unless the person has a high Throwing + Strength?

6

a meat cleaver would be a very unreliable throwing weapon, throwing weapons are very specifically weighted, without this they’re unwieldy, inaccurate, and will most likely end up hitting whatever you throw on only a blunt part, only causing a bruise.

Unless a weapon is specifically made for throwing, it’s shit for throwing, however a strong person with a brick can of course do some damage, the downside being the carry weight and volume of bricks, and of course the lack of range that comes with throwing heavy items.

7

exception to this would be well trained throwers who can feel out the weight and time/alter the spin in throw to hit with whatever part they want to. Though even they might need a couple practice throws with something new/especially unwieldy.

8

Throwing has been on quite the roller coaster since no one can agree on how to balance it, and the possibility that you can grab anything to kill at a range can make it OP. Basing it on reality sort of falls through because other forms of combat, though less convenient, tend to be more effective. It needs a niche to be preferred over others. Realism makes it’s scaling underwhelming in regards to bionic monsters. The normal throwing items are a bit mundane and more exotic items tend to be ineffective. Perhaps it would be best to scale the proper weapons on reality, and scale improvised weapons to compete against other forms of combat only with very heavy investment.

Personally I would suggest the effectiveness of cut/pierce on weapons to be based on skill level, and bash/weight be based on str/dex scaling. Proper weapons should reach peak performance much sooner than improvised weapons. The general scaling it has now could still be in effect, but lower contributing values would work as a penalty. While throwing a sword is a bit fantasy, it is not that unusual in comparison to a cyborg or fish man doing it. Many small bladed weapons would be inefficient, but they would still be a small hunk of metal that could be going at high speed. Pointy end first would be a damage bonus.

Final thoughts are if only proper weapons are preferred then just make an artifact throwing weapon. Maybe a hat, a yoyo, a weapon that returns to your hands, or an endless supply of weak explosives. You can also get those mad scientists to come up with something for the end game as well. Maybe a boot that homes in on to the heads of every zombie in the area.

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That is just the problem though isn’t it. You can throw literally anything and have just as much chance with that throw and damage of a toaster as you would an actual throwing knife.

I would like people to discuss it enough to give the devs a better idea of what we want and they can figure out how to code the best bits at their leisure.

@dissociativity

So it should be based upon ergonomics of the object? How would that look coding it?

Perhaps a adding several tags could dictate the ergonomics of an object + toon throwing skill + toon strength + distance of projected throw + 1 handed or 2 handed = difficulty, accuracy and damage.

Reason = because all items in game could be subject to being chucked. So adding tags + function to this would improve throwing and being able to do so as a tactic (stun effect as example) in a critical moment. Also for stealth and/or hunting.

Thoughts anyone? Trying to frame this and it is a running thought process.

10

Probably a tag for things that are balanced and aerodynamic enough to be thrown accurately. Anything without that tag should be terribly inaccurate. After that you can deal with weight vs. volume and applying the damage stats.

11

That seems reasonable. Nice =)

Ok so lemme add that to the mix:

Tags= Objects tagged with “Balanced” and/or “Aerodynamic”. “1 Handed or 2 Handed”.

1-
1 Handed;
Objects with this tag will be allowed to Activate a Grenade while holding any object with 1 handed tag. Without having to put away or drop any 1 Handed object they were holding.

All items with this tag will be able to hold a “1 Handed” object while being able to manipulate(such as Activate a grenade) and/or Throw any other 1 Handed object at the same time.

example=
Toon is holding a Pistol which is tagged 1 Handed. Grenade is tagged 1 Handed.
Toon holding pistol. Player enters inventory and chooses Grenade–> Activate = Live Grenade with turn timer( as it once was).
Toon may continue holding 1 Handed object(Pistol) while choosing to Throw active Grenade.
(imaginary hand swap, no programming needed unless programmer wants to add Ambidextrous Trait)
Holding 1 Hand object while throwing another 1 Hand object cuts Throwing skill by either 1/2 or 1/3(programmers choice of difficulty or addition of Ambidextrous to traits?).

2-
2 Handed;
All objects without a tag may be considered (for ease of programming) “2 Handed” as a default. This would simply keep all items not manipulated with 1 Hand require using both hands, such as it is currently.
example:
Rifle in hands(no tag) = put away, drop or wear in order to activate/manipulate items(because you need your hands to do this…unless you have more than 2 hands?) and/or Throw objects. While I could pull a pin on a grenade and put that rifle in my off hand. I can concede for balance that it would be really difficult compared to holding a pistol or a katana and at the same time throwing a throwing knife or any other 1 hand object.

3-
Balanced;
Object does full damage (throwing knife, pointy side oppose to hilt)
Without a Balanced tag. Any object thrown should do a percentage less than their damage would be.(imaginary hilt hit or a almost the pointy side of that knife/ edge)
example= No tag would make the object unbalanced and do damage according to weight + strength + type being whichever is higher(bash or slash).

4-
Aerodynamic;
Object is more likely to stay on the desired trajectory.
No tag= percentage lower to the Throwing skill.

Throwing skill determines Trajectory(path by which you aimed, from toon to target). Closer the target aimed at. Easier to hit. Strength determines the force by which the object is thrown; Increasing distance and damage accordingly. Scaling for distance; further away the target = lower damage.

Weight + strength will determine how many tiles an object maybe thrown. Throwing skill for accuracy/trajectory to target.

1 or 2 handed, balanced, aerodynamic tags as modifiers?

This took me a while to write up. After an hour or so. Feel free to amend, break, correct any of this system. Help is as has been welcome. I’m getting a migraine >_>

1 Like
12

A “bad” or “False” hit (but still a hit) should mean that the object basically does damage based on weight, strength etc… (maybe reduced further) but still do damage with (no? lowered?) chance of any crits/ chance of neg crit. for further damage penalty

good/bad hit with balanced/ unbalanced weapons should be based off skill & weapon balance

13

True. I didn’t think of that…sorta. I kinda touched slightly on this while thinking of “Balanced” and that bit about The Pointy side as oppsed to a hilt/pommel side. I am not sure if a Balanced hit should be 100% since you mention it. Maybe a 90-100%(If= bash is higher gets added Stun? If Slash is higher = bleed on living and burst organ on zombie?) hit should be like a Critical like D&D rolling a 20 on a 20 side die or something. When anything 50-89% is a standard damage hit. Below that is a scratch / minor damage or whatever?

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think it sould all fall into modifier calculation if it gets changed. 100% modifier for balanced lesser modifiers for the various other tags and such added together.

15

Not entirely sure what you mean? 0_o

16

if it is balanced, it should do 100% damage, and accuracy.

If not it does, less damage/accuracy.

All other factors, like ‘aerodynamic’ have a similar relation ship with the final damage/ accuracy numbers

17

Yes. That is a part of the system I made. I hope the devs like it enough to code it. But it really is up to anyone who knows how to code.

Everything can be thrown. But the accuracy and damage and even the trajectory of the aim to how many tiles away the object can be thrown is (I think) added into my system. Took me awhile.

Feel free to suggest any other idea. I’ll check it out =D