I’m new here, and this is just my personal opinion. So if you created this system, or like it as is, please do not take this personally.
But I personally, don’t find it very fun. You need several pieces of very heavy and rare equipment to use it, and most of the recipes have no alternatives. Meaning to make say a hacksaw, you have to search for this rare equipment and will likely come across 300 hacksaws during the search.
Most of the things you can create with it are not worth the trouble of tracking down all the pieces you need. Which defeats the purpose of requiring those pieces to build them, however logical.
So I would like to ask if alternatives to some of these parts could be added, things that are close enough. Say maybe be able to use a screwdriver instead of that metalworking chisel, or a stone pot instead of a crucible. Not sure what a swage is, but I am sure there could be a mundane alternative.
I mean it isn’t like Cataclysm needs to be a metalsmithing simulator.
Swages are more or less “molds” for forming shapes in sheet metal when a flat surface won’t do. You can usually use a stump with a hole cut in it instead. Again, it’s not as efficient and the lines aren’t as clean- but hey. If you’re talking about making a hacksaw, I’m not sure what it’d even be used for.
It is possible the Devs have, or are attempting to implement a sort of system like this, where tools may be substituted more readily. I know that various cutting tools like knives, scissors, and swords are very diverse and even have separate levels of ‘sharpness’ or efficiency.
I was the source of our metalsmithing system, and your post doesn’t cause me any distress.
The system was created from a combination of my real-world education (metallurgist and mechanical engineer) and research, both real-world (I spoke to several smiths and ferriers and observed/assisted one of them at work for an afternoon) and online. I strove for a degree of realism, and felt that a lack of portability regarding the required equipment made sense.
The smithing system was never really meant to outright replace scavenging for tools, but rather to allow you to create those (metal) things that you just cannot find for whatever reason. I specifically included the ability to create your own anvil, hammer, swages, etc entirely from scratch, so that someone with a welder and a pile of steel and wood could eventually get started from scratch. If you can’t locate a chisel or die set or whatever, check the recipe lists for them; you don’t need a smithing kit to create a smithing kit.
As for alternative tools, it’s an issue of how far can we push verisimilitude before it breaks. A crucible is required because molten steel is ~2500 degrees Fahrenheit; a stone and string vessel will shatter from thermal expansion long before reaching that point. A metalworking chisel is required because a screwdriver is not only the wrong shape, but would break (or partially melt) the first time you attempted to use it to cut hot steel. Swages and dies are forming tools (ClockworkZombie knows their stuff) used to shape the inside and outside of formed steel projects - they poke holes and make stuff round and are used to size and draw metal. Basically, you can’t replace the tools with alternatives because of the extreme conditions they’re subjected to - the same reason you need a proper hammer and proper forge to smith, and can’t fake it with a rock and campfire.
That being said, the metalworking system is an extra layer of crafting possibilities, and it’s hardly something you have to explore with every character. It’s mainly there for the players that really enjoy crafting stuff, and don’t mind devoting the time and resources to it, in order to turn common scrap into useful objects.
Oh, while you’re at it… I don’t know if anyone fixed this yet but I noticed that when making steel plating, heavy plating etc, there was an odd mismatch between the crafting requirements.
i.e. Standard steel plating needs a crucible and forge.
You can make spiked plating and hard plating without either of them. You just need a welder.
[quote=“DG123, post:7, topic:4982”]Also, why the hell are certain items impossible to forge, despite being made of metal?
I can make all kinds of useless crap but I can’t make a bullet reloading die set. Which is the one thing I can’t find ANYWHERE.[/quote]
Likely because no one’s added it to the system- maybe you could take a stab at it? The JSON recipes are pretty straightforward. This is also the sort of thing that’s near-impossible to manufacture in the field, however. Precision tools are needed, and it’s not something you can just bang together without potentially wrecking the weapons you’re firing these bullets from.
On the other hand, people can slap together genetic coctails and nuclear weapons pretty easily. I’m all for realism, but if it gets in the way of the game we should revisit the mechanics of it.
Perhaps adding a few more advanced recipes for high-end crafty characters is merited? I’ve not looked at the set of items that are currently forge-able.
It’s not, and it never will be. The smithing system is as optional as the recipes used to reload bullets or make pies. Don’t like it? Don’t use it.
[quote=“DG123, post:10, topic:4982”]Thank you Rivet.
Oh, while you’re at it… I don’t know if anyone fixed this yet but I noticed that when making steel plating, heavy plating etc, there was an odd mismatch between the crafting requirements.
i.e. Standard steel plating needs a crucible and forge.
You can make spiked plating and hard plating without either of them. You just need a welder.[/quote]
Eh. Really, aren’t you just making a crimper? You can even crimp bullets without a specialised mechanical rig. If you have a crucible and create a mould it shouldn’t be too implausible.
Perhaps adding a few more advanced recipes for high-end crafty characters is merited? I've not looked at the set of items that are currently forge-able.
I do think skill should play a larger part in what you can forge. At the moment we have relatively unskilled characters bashing random lumps of metal and sticking a bit of fur on there to end up with a super finely crafted Katana.
I’d like to see some more interesting things for electronics crafting at high level, too. I came up with a Smartgun concept which would be well suited to that…
Have a low quality katana and a high quality katana.
Ex.
This is a low quality katana, it looks like a cheap weeaboo sword without any real quality. It only just looks cool.
This is a high quality katana, it looks like an authentic Japanese sword maker forged this weapon with the highest level of quality in mind.
A quality slider system for craft-able weapons based on skill/chance (if found) that applies a bonus or a malus to stats (like Dwarf Fortress has, to get an idea) would be neat but I’m opposed to having manually inserted “low and high” quality versions.
We have a tailoring skill that allows us to create various items but also to reenforce them giving stat bonuses.
Why can’t the metal working system be used to create “reinforced broadsword” or “fine hacksaw” that would give stat bonuses or decreases in time taken to use “fine” items.
You know, this sounds like a really good idea. Having a system where you first craft the item, then need to “hone” or finish it to bring it to it’s full potential could be pretty nice.
