So dodging is bad now?

So dodging in 0.F or maybe a bit earlier, I just tested. Not matter your dodge level, you can’t dodge when two enemies are next to you? Like what’s the point of dodging then if this isn’t a bug? This makes armor even better than it already was.

Yep, dodge got gutted. According to Vormithrax, now you can only proc dodge once per round* (not sure if it’s once per second or once between your actions, probably latter), then your dodge is reduced to 0 so however high you had it doesn’t matter - it only matter for that first dodge attempt. No more invincible dodge builds.
*barring MAs that give additional dodges, those should still work… probably?
e: oh, and you also cannot dodge while driving in a seat with a seatbelt.

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That’s not how dodging works in real life. But I am seeing in my example that they don’t even dodge at all. I only see the rats missing them.

GL proving it to Kevin.

Thanks, so dex now is a useless stat vs strength now huh? Strength more hp, more survivable. Dex, cna dodge one, and only one, dodge one enemy at a time or it does nothing, and only work melee which is again is unrealistic. What a joke, this ruined the game for me, and I was a huge fan. Been playing for at least 200 hours and modding for more.

Yeah, I’m not a fan of this too. There could be other ways, say, half effective dodge each time you dodge. It would still allow you to dodge 2-3 times if you really went into it but would not make you invincible. Eh, whatever, reach weapons new meta.

To make dodging in melee work realistically it works I think this.

[space][space] [space]
[space] [ you ] [space]

Dodging works normally.

[space][space] [space]
[space] [ you ] [space]

Dodging work by back up from the northeast. Will be harder than one, but not much.

[space][enemy] [space]
[space] [ you ] [space]

Dodging now is limited in direction, it could cut down about half or less of your dodge value. This would be due to being only able to dodge east or west easily. Up and down could work but it would be risky as you move toward the side of one of them. Which, could get lucky and attack you from that direction as they swing, if they are swinging.

[space][enemy] [space]
[enemy] [ you ] [enemy]

This would be bad, you could still dodge, but you’re almost surrounded and only four spaces are open to move towards. Dodging would be around less than like 20 percent or something.

[enemy][enemy] [enemy]
[enemy] [ you ] [enemy]

Here you can’t dodge, you’re surrounded 100%.

No, in real life, if someone tries to grab you, you move sideways and don’t dodge in place.
In real life, dodging is really, really exhausting.
In real life, if two people attack you at the same time, you sometimes can’t dodge even one of the attacks, as you’re not a fluid…
In real life, no matter how good you are at it, you might not be able to dodge at all if the space does not allow it.
Did I forget something? Oh, yeah, right, in real life, there are no Zombies to dodge from…

The character still dodges, but it does not provide an extra message (unless it’s a special attack).
It’s easy to prove: Create a character with 0 dodge and see how many times it takes a hit from a single monster. Then create a character with 20 dodge and see how it takes (almost) none.

Try fighting with high strength and no dexterity, you’ll break your weapon in no time…

Unless you’re in the matrix, you can’t dodge fired projectiles…
Also, the dodge skill is still important if you step into a trap.

Too bad. Luckily, the game is open source, so all you need to do is to copy it and undo the change. Or play on an older version. Or… so many possiblities…


You are describing how Uncanny Dodge work, and it isn’t always beneficial. Game deciding your character should move without your interaction can be deadly. UD counters it with the fact you dodge 100% of the time it actually procs but normal dodge in your version would more likely get you killed.

Brawling or your martial art of choice gives extra dodges…

You can’t dodge well without moving. And if you did, it would have to rely on jumping and ducking. Or if you’re really agile, and this would leave you open if you’re not like a cat mutant. You could do both. Also, zombies and animals and other stupid things wouldn’t try to mix up their attack directions and would most likely swing at you from the same direction that they are standing at.

I actually tried to imply “play a game you like more”… Or to make a pull request with a reasonable change again.
The game changes. It’s an alpha. It’s part of how it develops… just ranting about it will change nothing.

It’s just I think really bad practice to nerf a stat so bad and not buff it other ways for a stable release. Also I don’t don’t care about dodging. I thought it was good, not fantastic. This just goes against my understanding of realism too much, it causes me anguish.

That’s where you are wrong, it was gamebreakingly fantastic if you built for it. You could make a character who was effectively invincible in melee. I watched spawning 8 zombie hunters on all sides, or 4 skel juggs around dodge character, and then they were killed while doing zero damage to said character… by counter attacks only. Yep, hold 5 and wait till your enemies die. Or just read a book for lulz and counter while reading. If that’s not broken I don’t know what is.
Dodge deserved nerf, there’s no question about that. It’s the scale of the nerf I don’t like.


Yes, an excellent idea, this I fully agree should be changed to use the same energy as attacking or more based on your encumbrance and carry weight.

If you play a melee combat game like Mordhau, you’d know what I mean. This would only work well with a character with high dex or skill or both. I could draw this to show what I mean.

This isn’t demonstrated well in the game due to its simplicity. But looks like there’s a lot of space to dodge most of the time.

I don’t know if this was meant to be rude, or just a joke.

That was a character with 20 skill. But thanks for the info.

Wouldn’t matter, unless if the weapon broke impossibly fast. Or I was really strong which you can’t because it’s not worth going over 12 points in a stat usually. And missing isn’t important since skill seems to help far more.

Yeah, but it’s hardcoded I believe, and I don’t know where it is. I like this game because it’s the only good mostly realist open-world rouge-like.

Sure it needs some kinds of nerfs, but overall guns were the worst threat to the player than everything else. And dodging doesn’t help since they made it not work vs range attacks.

In Overwatch, Hanzo’s arrows move faster than real arrows do by about 20%. And yet you can dodge them in-game by slowly jogging out of the way. Also, if you ever played an fps or paintball, or laser tag. You’d know that is a lot harder to hit a moving target than a stationary one.

What traps are there? Besides the land mines that you see a mile beforehand. Or traps that don’t do anything really. They’re so rare too.

I do, but if you try that in real life you’d know that Mordhau is not even close to be real life. You’ll most likely dodge directly into the attack of the second person, which might be worse than to protect yourself and take the blows.

It’s not a joke, there are as a matter of fact no Zombies in real life. But take it as you’d like.

Yes I know. And all the messages about attacks missing were the dodges. The ones hitting were the one where you used up your dodge per turn. You said the character isn’t dodging, only the attacker missing, hence I suggested to give it a try with a single enemy to see your character is actually dodging.

Which it does, if you have low dexterity. I do run my smash tests with high strength and low dexterity to not have to smash something 1000 times against monsters/surfaces.

As mentioned by others, martial arts have bonus_dodges, so you could just create a martial art with 100 bonus_dodges and use that one.
Other than that, just remove this line and you’d be fine.


Bro, you know it. Mordhau is unrealistic fast footwork, but people in that game die easier than they should. that’s why it’s really risky and why you die all the time. It could world with fast reflexes and skill, but in this game, it seems like you can’t really dodge with that one dodge limit which is the realism problem. The angles of the attackers need to be taken to into account or something simpler. Also if we’re doing this with dodge, getting attacked by more and more enemies should results in friendly fire, melee, and ranged.

Thanks, now I just want it to be four dodges at most would be good enough I think, or less.

I think it’s funny how you keep using games to argue about real life… arrows move up to 300 fps. At that speed and the in game maximum distance of 18 meters, that would be 0.2-0.25 seconds. Normal human reaction time is said to be around 250 ms (for expected events) and up to 800 ms (for unexpected events).
So, moving out of the way of a flying arrow will take you about the time from seeing it getting fired to hitting you in the chest.

That’s correct. But that has nothing to do with dodging. This is already occuring movement.

Bear traps, crossbow traps, shotgun traps, nailboard traps, teleporter, pits and sinkholes, …
They are rare, but they exist. And dodge helps you if you trigger them.

The tile size in the game can’t be trusted to be a meter truly. If it was the case all the range weapons have too little max range, bows and crossbows to aren’t normally fired at that short of a range as well.
Also Just because I use games for drawing some conclusions, doesn’t always invalidate the truth of what I’m talking about. Because what I argue is a simple occurrence in almost all games with guns, realistic or not. I’ve made them go the speed they should in irI and modded it into Skyrim and made sure it was close, it was still easily avoidable at the normal firing ranges you and NPCs fire at. The same goes for the games with hitscan weapons. And while it might not be doable to dodge in a traditional sense at short range. You instead move slightly around in random patterns to make it so they can’t track your predicted

movement pattern to get a clean shot. At really short range, you can even “outrun” them aiming at you at less than 5 meters away as you dart to the left or right. And arrows especially bullets are very very tiny, unlike melee weapons. And sporadic movement and weaving can throw it off and miss ever so slightly from even just the smallest movements. At worse you only need to dodge foot and half to have them miss your center mass. And it’s easier the quicker and more dexterous you are to do this.

Also FYI, my reflexes are 188ms, and that’s faster than 250ms. Human Benchmark
And I wouldn’t say I’m faster than average. But in CDDA, you almost always going to know you’re going to get shot at before they shoot. But that is not how you’re going to dodge as I say above. And super quick mutates are the ones that should be able to dodge them in the normal sense, not me.