Serious discussion on gun crafting

[Karicter]

In my efforts to work on the wiki with all this work vacation time, I constantly come across gun-crafting related pages being Completely empty. It may be unrelated, but I’m wondering if it’s a lack of interest in said crafts by vanilla/canon players since the removal of gunpowder crafting. After some sifting and finding this thread, I would like to teach myself modding solely for diving into gunsmithing to validate my work on the wiki.
Yes I know, I am getting in way over my head for a new guy, but why not, considering others might be busy or never work on it at all?
Some points of advice so I can get started however:

[ol][li]Should workshop equipment i.e. lathes, drills, presses have their own menu as computer consoles do, or should it be a sort of subtle interaction like lockers/bookcases? (Not sure how different that is in code but I’ll learn.)[/li]
[li]Should the equipment EVENTUALLY be craftable, as lockers and bookcases are, or found rarely (and STATIC) in an entirely new build i.e. gun factory of sorts?[/li]
[li]I assume the equipment would also require a generator/static power source as well? (I searched honestly for maybe 5 mins on the forums and found nothing but using a car as a genny. Building a generator through code is over my head, and from past RL military experience guns have always fascinated me and gunsmithing in particular anyways, so I’m useless for making generators myself if I’m not dedicated to that aspect)[/li][/ol]

Any tips or browbeating ala smug code vets would be appreciated, I have a code-heavy next few days ahead of me. All while still helping on the wiki of course.

[Noctifer]

The equipment should be used as a requirement like crafting in my opinion. And yes, the furniture should be craft-able,it is basically specialty benches with specialty equipment. A for generator, putting a battery, motor, and an alternator in the same square is a sort of generator. You just got to make sure there is a fuel tank next to it or put foot pedal instead and get to driving.

[Karicter]

The equipment should be used as a requirement like crafting in my opinion. And yes, the furniture should be craft-able,it is basically specialty benches with specialty equipment.

Interestingly enough, I assumed as much, but thought it better to ask vet players, what with game-balance and all that.

As for a generator, putting a battery, motor, and an alternator in the same square is a sort of generator. You just got to make sure there is a fuel tank next to it or put foot pedal instead and get to driving.

Somehow the thought of a survivor pedaling into oblivion to power a heavy duty press causes odd chuckles to exit manically from my mouth. On topic however, that is a very odd way of "crafting" a machine; just placing things on top of another. I never did into funnel+container much.

However my biggest obstacle I think will be making the equipment as an actual entity, with the submenu (I assume that will be the preferred method to locker-type interaction) as a minor hurdle. Where exactly would I find the computer console in the code to even begin? I’ve tried searching “CONSOLE” and a few other words and nothing.

[vache]

The computer code is pretty rigid and might not be of much help for you, but its all contained in computer.h and computer.cpp. The game::examine function checks for the console tag and then forwards it along to the computer found there.

[Karicter]

The computer code is pretty rigid and might not be of much help for you, but its all contained in computer.h and computer.cpp. The game::examine function checks for the console tag and then forwards it along to the computer found there.

That makes sense, though I’ve not a clue how in the world I didn’t see those files so glaringly obvious.

Anyways, so I figure I’ll need a .h and .cpp for each piece of equipment and simply have the examine check for each unique tag then. You help is very much appreciated.

Now what pieces of equipment are needed and which aren’t? This is my theory (my way of stalling the amount of coding it will take as I work on the wiki.) Of course, Handloading is already a canon process, but I wager that game balance will be beaten like a dead horse with this mod, so to alleviate that, the hand press & die set (considered mobile handloading in this case) will produce “broken rounds”, apt to misfeed or cause blowback. Static handloading will produce reloaded, still imperfect, but stable rounds.

Gunpowder will need:

1. Static version: Ball mill and chemistry set (which will actually be mobile like the hand press & die.
   [ul][li]Mobile/handheld version: Mortar & Pestle (produces “broken gunpowder”) and chemistry set.[/li][/ul]

2. Power system (Generator or UPS), or heat source for mobile version.

Bullet Casings will need:

[ul][li]Static version: Large drill press & die machine and Hand prime tool[/li]
[li]Mobile/handheld version: hand press & die set and Hand prime tool[/li][/ul]

While repairing gunpowder is impossible for obvious reasons, “broken” casings can be repaired via use of an Annealing machine, whether they are fired or die pressed ones.

Handloading (Current “mobile” process) uses:

[ol][li]hand press & die set[/li]
[li]heat source of some kind[/li][/ol]

As stated earlier, this will be made inferior to Static handloading via “broken” rounds/powders/casings being created which of course may misfeed or backfire.

Handloading (Static) will need:
1.Large drill press & die machine.
2. Power system (Generator or UPS)

So, tl;dr:
Large drill press & die machine
Annealing machine
Ball mill
Hand prime tool
Mortar & pestle
The above “machines” are offically TBA for this mod, and the infered tweaks to canon/vanilla game mechanices i.e. producing “broken” casings/gunpowder/rounds will be the finalized fine tuning.
Please let me know of any suggestions if you’re interested.

[Karicter]

Quick stupid side note:
Finally opened up the computer cpp and h files, and

[Random_dragon]

…derp. Good luck, the source code tends to catch fire when I touch it.

[Litppunk]

Spenser?

- can’t believe I just made that reference… so not reference worthy… >.> please no one recognize that reference?

[Karicter]

[quote=“Litppunk, post:28, topic:10605”]Spenser?

- can’t believe I just made that reference… so not reference worthy… >.> please no one recognize that reference?[/quote]

Everyone now knows you watched that show. Good job.

[Litppunk]

I am so ashamed!!! I swear it’ll never happen again. I am not a fan, just watched…some episodes when nothing else was on TV I could find. I SWEAR. …at least I am not brony. O.O <.< checks for offended bronies >.> and prepares for (calm?) debate about MLP being an illegitimate show other than as a children’s show like powerpuffs, power rangers, Dora, etc… etc…

[Grandpuh_Ty]

I am so ashamed!!! I swear it’ll never happen again. I am not a fan, just watched…some episodes when nothing else was on TV I could find. I SWEAR. …at least I am not brony. O.O <.< checks for offended bronies >.> and prepares for (calm?) debate about MLP being an illegitimate show other than as a children’s show like powerpuffs, power rangers, Dora, etc… etc…

[Litppunk]

nope. I am proud to say that is a resounding no. Had potential, chose to be a children’s show. I have watched several episodes and can proundly say I do not plan to ever again. Think I went so far as to watch more than a season. If you would like I can write you a small essay on things it could have done that would have made it a mock-childrens show/awesome-action-parody-of-feminism-and-all-things-girly-in-general instead of being a children’s show/ inspiration to people that almost need to take tips from Justin Beiber on how to not be children. (sorry any bronies out there that was a…tad overzealous and hurtful, but I stand by the general sentiment…mostly)

[Karicter]

Jesus Christ.

Offending pedophiles aside, I don’t like ANY cartoons of this generation, theyre all “2DEEP4U” reddit trash. I’ll take my Ed Edd and Eddy and Thunder cats and thats that.

Now, back on topic, considering computers are hackable i.e. hack “fail-able”, I would likely need build a different cpp file instead right? because trying to break down something hard coded to even have failure rate at simply Using it would be useless in this case. I dont want any of the machines Use to be a hindrance, only the products that come of it.

[Random_dragon]

Que? I missed some serious derp it seems. o3o

[Litppunk]

[quote=“Karicter, post:33, topic:10605”]Jesus Christ.

Offending pedophiles aside, I don’t like ANY cartoons of this generation, theyre all “2DEEP4U” reddit trash. I’ll take my Ed Edd and Eddy and Thunder cats and thats that.[/quote]

Yes. (thats “Art” for you) Though my preference is Tom and Jerry over the eds, and such. A solid anime before any cartoon I can think of off the top of my head.

[Noctifer]

[quote=“Karicter, post:33, topic:10605”]Jesus Christ.

Offending pedophiles aside, I don’t like ANY cartoons of this generation, theyre all “2DEEP4U” reddit trash. I’ll take my Ed Edd and Eddy and Thunder cats and thats that.

Now, back on topic, considering computers are hackable i.e. hack “fail-able”, I would likely need build a different cpp file instead right? because trying to break down something hard coded to even have failure rate at simply Using it would be useless in this case. I dont want any of the machines Use to be a hindrance, only the products that come of it.[/quote]

I would assume that copying an existing computer terminal and changing the fail chance to zero would work. Wherever it needs to be in a different file is beyond me.

[Litppunk]

what exactly are you trying to accomplish anyways?

[kevin.granade]

[ol][li]Should workshop equipment i.e. lathes, drills, presses have their own menu as computer consoles do, or should it be a sort of subtle interaction like lockers/bookcases? (Not sure how different that is in code but I’ll learn.)[/li][/ol]

It’d work a lot better IMO as a stationary tool, it would just provide a prerequisite that’s called for in various crafting recipes, having individual lathe/drill operations is way more in depth than anything else we do in the game.

[ul][li]Should the equipment EVENTUALLY be craftable, as lockers and bookcases are, or found rarely (and STATIC) in an entirely new build i.e. gun factory of sorts?[/li][/ul]

If anything, crafting one of these tools should probably be a bigger task than the gun crafting you’re adding them to enable. It’s far more reasonable to find said tools in existing buildings. As for them being static, some larger examples would be beyond the survivor’s ability to move, but some mid-range examples you could load in a truck and haul off to install elsewhere.

[ul][li]I assume the equipment would also require a generator/static power source as well? (I searched honestly for maybe 5 mins on the forums and found nothing but using a car as a genny. Building a generator through code is over my head, and from past RL military experience guns have always fascinated me and gunsmithing in particular anyways, so I’m useless for making generators myself if I’m not dedicated to that aspect)[/li][/ul]

Due to how electricity is handled in the game, even if we make a generator-type appliance rather than a “one frame vehicle”, it will actually be a vehicle under the hood. (heh)

[Karicter]

I would assume that copying an existing computer terminal and changing the fail chance to zero would work. Wherever it needs to be in a different file is beyond me.

Interesting way to see it, though it seems to be greek to me thus far regardless. I’ll try making a infallible “computer” copy first before starting from scratch.

what exactly are you trying to accomplish anyways?

I’m attempting to make stationary equipment i.e. crafting table in minecraft. I would like both something game balancing and interesting to get into while in game like farming or building cars seem to be for some players. However the bigger reasons are validating my work on the wiki and making an elaborate excuse to bring gunpowder back into the late game; because frankly I would literally kill myself in a post apocalyptic world if I was forced to use only melee weapons when firearms have such great potential after the ATF and Law enforcement dies off. To me, a vastly dynamic/realistic game like this is Required to have some more self sufficient ways of causing destruction and making the other guy’s wife and kids mourn his death.

Maybe I should get checked out.

Anyways, sociopathic tendancies aside, I am making an effort to keep gunpowder because playing “hurrdurr caveman with a club” like every zombie game seems to be nowadays (Dead Island, Dying Light, DayZ standalone, the list goes on…) is idiotic to me, especially when you now have the freedom to experiment on destructive compounds without legal backlash. Decent smokeless powders were semi-consistent as early as the mid 1800s, so it’s not at all a stretch to think someone surviving with proper documentation could repeat and refine the process again after a few hundred or so years have passed since then. Ergo my efforst are not to argue gunpowder should come back, I think that is already a given; but rather to make it more “game balancing” and “expensive”, so it’s more of a time consuming endeavor to become self sufficient with firearms and makes the “but muh guns” players and the “but muh realism” cavemen all happy.

[quote=“Karicter, post:21, topic:10605”][ol][li]Should workshop equipment i.e. lathes, drills, presses have their own menu as computer consoles do, or should it be a sort of subtle interaction like lockers/bookcases? (Not sure how different that is in code but I’ll learn.)[/li][/ol]

It’d work a lot better IMO as a stationary tool, it would just provide a prerequisite that’s called for in various crafting recipes, having individual lathe/drill operations is way more in depth than anything else we do in the game.

[ul][li]Should the equipment EVENTUALLY be craftable, as lockers and bookcases are, or found rarely (and STATIC) in an entirely new build i.e. gun factory of sorts?[/li][/ul]

If anything, crafting one of these tools should probably be a bigger task than the gun crafting you’re adding them to enable. It’s far more reasonable to find said tools in existing buildings. As for them being static, some larger examples would be beyond the survivor’s ability to move, but some mid-range examples you could load in a truck and haul off to install elsewhere.

[ul][li]I assume the equipment would also require a generator/static power source as well? (I searched honestly for maybe 5 mins on the forums and found nothing but using a car as a genny. Building a generator through code is over my head, and from past RL military experience guns have always fascinated me and gunsmithing in particular anyways, so I’m useless for making generators myself if I’m not dedicated to that aspect)[/li][/ul]

Due to how electricity is handled in the game, even if we make a generator-type appliance rather than a “one frame vehicle”, it will actually be a vehicle under the hood. (heh)[/quote]

1. It has always been intended as stationary, that question was more of a "should it have a submenu, or should it “just work” i.e. “you put your in the locker.”
2. I agree with that, but again the question was more of a preference situation for “realism” sticklers; I personally opt for stationary machines that have to be found in gun/bullet factory buildings, but I figured I would ask who thought otherwise.
3. And since I looked up some more info since Noctifer mentioned the genny work around, I completely understand what you mean.

[Litppunk]

Sounds good. I would like to point out some things that it SOUNDS like you may have misunderstood/invented in your head about cata. Guns are VERY much used in late game (for those that choose to go non-barbarian style) There are tools for repair and modding weapons and bullet crafting recipes and reloading(Remaking casings into ammo) recipes. There are even simplistic gun crafting recipes(pipe guns)
I assume you knew all this^ but the way you said that last I just wanted to make sure.

After checking wiki. What we DON’T have (and please correct me anywhere and everywhere I am mistaken) is ACTUAL gun crafting, primer crafting, ammonia crafting–>(aside from finding it in gallon jugs what other way is there to get ammonia?) and > OXIDIZED POWDER<-- (No wiki info) crafting.

and…<.< ^.^ >.> hmm what am I missing? V.V <.< >.> <.< OH. maybe some way to mine for some of these original components…which I guess boils down to ammonia again…which is prob not mine-able anyways… not to mention no reason to push this into to much of a minecraft/DF realm…although I guess it is always optional