Passive regen without sleep: Do we want it?


#121

Id love to have allergic reactions and attisons.

Finally, we could use those bees! for real good.


#122

Yeah, don’t think it matters too much if there’s limited regen while awake. Honestly I’d personally like to see as hardcore (and realistic) an injury system as possible - where getting wounded is a big deal and is going to leave you wanting to limp about, licking your wounds and being extremely careful for some time.

Having limited passive regen actually I think helps that, because it means spending a lot of downtime crafting/reading/driving/etc makes sense when you’re injured, rather than just knocking yourself unconscious for an entire week and suddenly waking up magically fixed. Which honestly is a bit silly.


#123

Im sensing to mods here:
1: You don’t regen at all and use items for all your regens
2: You regen SOOOO slow.

Both would be considered “harder” than standard play-through I think. Although, with normal item spawns item regen might actually be easier…


#124

I simply want less healing for sleep and well, you already can nerf down the instahealing items via item overrides.

If we have passive healing via nonbionics and nonmutation it needs to be limited (to either shallow wounds or very very slow or for ‘comfy’ bedrest) and it should also be subject to health.


#125

That’s not a solution at all. Healing items aren’t broken because they heal too much, but because you can stack them indefinitely.


#126

Right, it doesn’t make much sense to use 25 bandages in a row to keep healing yourself, but it also doesn’t make sense to not have such items in the game for you to heal yourself with. Putting a second bandage on top of the previous one doesn’t do anything, though. I still think that bandages need to not heal at all, or perhaps only heal a percentage of lost HP.

But to solve the broken healing items, perhaps go the Project Zomboid route and have a wound heal over time when a body part is bandaged/first aid kit is applied—the body part would be listed/colored as “bandaged,” and applying more than one bandage/first aid kit does nothing. Or just give a simple diminishing return when healing items are used repeatedly in a short period of time to encourage a higher first aid skill rather than just infinite healing items.

Or implement an actual wound and medical system on top of the binary HP system like I suggested. Debuffs, max HP reductions, specific health effects related to injuries. That sort of thing. Perhaps even give the ability to instantly gain some HP back when you perform a successful treatment (like setting a broken limb) as an alternative to using health items. Health items can still be used the same way as before, but the debuffs an injury would give limits their effectiveness until the injury is treated.


#127

now your getting to far into the “realism” side of things. assume for every “day” you spend healing you actually just spent 6. For tedium purposes you can even assume you applied 6X the bandages over the coarse of that time period.
It can stay a little “gamey” it just needs to be consistent.


#128

[quote=“Litppunk, post:127, topic:12896”]now your getting to far into the “realism” side of things. assume for every “day” you spend healing you actually just spent 6. For tedium purposes you can even assume you applied 6X the bandages over the coarse of that time period.
It can stay a little “gamey” it just needs to be consistent.[/quote]

I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to say here. Assume every day = six days? Consistent? What? Are you replying to me?


#129

42/32 for/against atm

that gap.


#130

F**k it. Make it a mod or an option in the settings. :confused:


#131

You all are thinking about nefing heal speeds and I’m over here dying of an infected booboo from a Goddamn coyote.


#132

I do think we should make liquor a really crappy disinfectant. Like maybe mixing it with cauterization would boost pain and disinfect chance?

I should look up the IRL effectiveness of cleansing with liquor and fire together. Gotta hurt


#133

[quote=“Neonwarrior, post:128, topic:12896”][quote=“Litppunk, post:127, topic:12896”]now your getting to far into the “realism” side of things. assume for every “day” you spend healing you actually just spent 6. For tedium purposes you can even assume you applied 6X the bandages over the coarse of that time period.
It can stay a little “gamey” it just needs to be consistent.[/quote]

I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to say here. Assume every day = six days? Consistent? What? Are you replying to me?[/quote]

As I posted earlier default season length is 14 days. Aprox 1/2 of a month or 1/6 of a RL season (~3 months = 1 season) so we only play ~ 1/6th of the time our character lives of the year. If we scale everything time wise up by that much on healing etc. Things smooth out a little better. We can assume character goes to the bathroom etc… in the “days” we don’t play them too if your the kind of person that feels the need to get hyper realistic about things for “reasons” thus we have lore reasons for not needing to implement lots of things. 5/6ths of the “days” are spent doing random tedious chores that no one wants to play through.


#134

I’ve only recently resumed playing C:DDA after something like 5 years, since before the original developer quit, so I’ll lend my mostly outside perspective, based on my knowledge of RPGs and such.

Firstly, I’d maintain healing only through sleep or idle rest. Significant wounds just don’t heal if the body keeps being exerted, and many quasi-serious RPG systems therefore adopt rest-only healing.

The specifics of healing speed are debatable, but personally I’d get rid of most instant-healing items per se. You get wounded and given certain gravity, the wound’s only going to get worse unless it receives treatment. Healing items such as bandages, disinfectant, first aid kits et all would be part of such treatment, perhaps a hidden roll aided by such items and the player’s skill. Come rest, how much the wound heals in a given amount of time would depend on how well-executed the treatment was.

That’d be the central system, and I’d restrict exceptions to the more outlandish, high-end tools players have at their disposal, like sci-fi items and mutations. Something like a nanobandage could provide rapid healing even without rest, or some regenerative mutation could have a similar, slower effect regardless of rest. But if you get shot/cut/bitten, in normal circumstances the best you should be able to do in the fray is bandage up to staunch the bleeding and pop some painkillers to keep going as effectively as possible until you find the time and place to rest and recover.


#135

Oh sorry, I skipped over your posts because they’re just a grammatical mess and lack structure.

But from what I can piece together, you’re saying that regen makes sense because time is accelerated in CDDA? Sorry, but I don’t think my character is lying around doing nothing for 5/6ths of the time when I’m in direct control for all of it. It also doesn’t change the fact that health items still act as instant health potions and that the whole health/medical system could use an overhaul.

The seasons are 14 days because it would be tedious to wait 365 days just to get to the next year. I could change the season length to 1/4th of that just to make it realistic and that still wouldn’t change how the game works.


#136

Hes saying that fast healing is good because waiting is tedious. Thus passive regen would also be good because it simulates 36 seconds to a turn.

Buuuut Im not on that board. Ive suggested that hp heal faster the more of it you have. Ill suggest it again.


#137

^ that sounds perfectly reasonable.

Mostly what I’ve been trying to say, is that almost any semi-reasonable passive regen, would be acceptable because “lore” wise, the character’s spend 5/6ths not doing “nothing” but instead doing menial chores and tasks that you would not want to play through: bathroom breaks, taking off and reapplying bandages etc…

What I said earlier, is that the game should choose ‘passive Regen over time’ or ‘instant Regen items’ as its healing standard instead of trying to use both simultaneously, and just making things feel awkward. Then, the losing healing variant should be made a supported mod.

My apologies If my writing is a bit hard to read. My thoughts are chaotic, and I HATE rereading things I’ve already read/written unless I think they are REALLY good. My grammar, and such take a pretty nasty hit because of that.


#138

[quote=“Litppunk, post:137, topic:12896”]^ that sounds perfectly reasonable.

Mostly what I’ve been trying to say, is that almost any semi-reasonable passive regen, would be acceptable because “lore” wise, the character’s spend 5/6ths not doing “nothing” but instead doing menial chores and tasks that you would not want to play through: bathroom breaks, taking off and reapplying bandages etc…

What I said earlier, is that the game should choose ‘passive Regen over time’ or ‘instant Regen items’ as its healing standard instead of trying to use both simultaneously, and just making things feel awkward. Then, the losing healing variant should be made a supported mod.

My apologies If my writing is a bit hard to read. My thoughts are chaotic, and I HATE rereading things I’ve already read/written unless I think they are REALLY good. My grammar, and such take a pretty nasty hit because of that.[/quote]

Alright, I understand now. Thanks for the clarification. I still stand by my previous suggestions, though, as I don’t support passive regen at all, but thanks again for explaining.


#139

Someday I’d like to see a more in-depth wound system, where bandaging and first aid would improve the healing of wounds rather than directly refilling HP.

In the interim, I’m pretty happy with the system as it is. Sleep-based regen could be a little slower, with the Fast Healer trait bringing sleep regen up to currrent levels.


#140

Just addressing 1 source of healing will not balance anything at all… And as sleeping has a bunch of mechanics linked to it, can’t dissapear from the game.

The goals of the suggestions that follow are:

  • Turning Sleep into a mechanism FOCUSED on recovering from “Tired” status, with marginal (If desired) effect on health regen.

  • Removing “cheasy” boundary effects were sleep is artificially triggered.

  • OPTIONAL content to make First Aid training more relevant and creating a framework for a detailed wound system further on.

The problem, IMHO, is what different players seek on CDDA. On a simple division:

- “Wasteland Heroes”. Nothing is too tough to beat, nothing is too secure to breach, nothing is too hidden to not been found. Downtime & micromanagement detracts from gameplay because it delays their action packed CDDA version. Health is a meassure of how much they can bite at one time before having to retreat to become stronger. Health regen for them is just something minor compared to growing more powerful to be able to beat whatever kicked their arses the last time. They abuse sleep system PURELY as a cheap HP regaining mechanism with boundary effects with minimum REAL TIME investment.

SUGGESTION: Replace sleep regaining HP with the equivalent passive HP regen over 24h period SINCE THE LAST TIME damage was received. Anything affecting regen (Slow healer, Fast healer, Mutations, Bionics) should operate over the ammount gained hourly. For as long as the character keeps receving damage, regen will not kick in doesn’t mater what. Sleeping in this model should cure “Tired” effects and provide a bonus to passive regen (Starting at the very moment the character manages to sleep) until the next time damage is received or Tired condition happens.

- “Survivalists”. Society as it was known is over, adapt to new ways of living or follow the dodo’s way, any needs previously fullfilled effortestly could be a challenge now that everything is crumbling, priorize, plan or die. Lack of details that highlight the differences with the Old Ways, and lack of options to create new ways to deal with problems is what detracts from gameplay because makes their reallistic CDDA version less immersive. Main problem here is that consumables as instaheals make any further consideration about sleeping secondary, coupled with the almost negligible effect First Aid skill has on the whole process which, paradoxically, should be one of the most fate-deciding skills to have on a “reallistic” post-apocalyptic world.

SUGGESTION: “Open Wound” debuff. OPTIONAL FEATURE. “Reallistic consumables” DO NOT make characters to regain HP. Each time a location looses 25% HP or more in a single hit, “OPEN WOUND [Location]” debuff applies. This debuff prevents any kind of regen on the location affected by it. A successful “Reallistic consumble” charge spent will turn it into “BIND WOUND [Location]” debuff which will last 96h / Effective First Aid skill (Base plus a bonus coming from the “Reallistic consumable” spent). BIND WOUND debuff reduces regen to half on the location affected until healed. Any new “OPEN WOUND DEBUFF” in the same location will remove BIND WOUND debuff forcing the whole process to restart.

Obviously, the above is just a generalization of the current “Bite” mechanism… But able to be triggered by anything damaging not just Zeds. So in reality we already have everything needed to have a reallistic wound system. What could make it fun to play with is linking each “Open Wound” with secondary effects, but that would be a whole new PR in itself, specially if one want to open it as definitions on a .json file, I have suggestions about it… But this thread is just about health regen.