Passive regen without sleep: Do we want it?


#61

Climbing on Each other? We can’t even have 2 monsters on the same tile, as far as I know, so how would that work?

I’m also not sure if they would be able to climb. Climbing requires at least some intelligence, because you have to keep an eye out how ‘safe’ the place is where you put arms/legs and where to put them next, while All zombies, grapplers too, can barely get through an open or broken window. I’d have serious doubts about this. Random shuffling, sure. Maybe even a random chance that Zombies will fall down stairs or holes, which would produce a (relative) high amount of noise, while the zombie would take some minor damage. I seem to remember that they already >can< fall down holes or cliffs when they are hunting the player, but they should be able to do that without a human or animal interacting with them.


#62

They can climb and stumble up/down stairs, and follow scents and sounds up/down z-levels. The problem is that stairs need to be aligned for zombies to use them. That’s a rather big mapgen problem.


#63

[quote=“Neonwarrior, post:59, topic:12896”]You gotta be kidding. “It makes sense that if you are not bleeding out and your wounds are clean they will most likely heal on their own.” As someone who is studying to become a nurse, I can tell you that regenerating health in the way that the OP suggests is ridiculous. It is true that the body heals on its own, yes, but this is something the body does ONLY while in resting state (anabolic state). When you’re running around killing zombies, your body does not partake in healing as the energy is instead used for fighting and moving. The body’s hormones also change during resting state versus active state (growth hormone spikes during sleep). If regeneration is to happen during combat, it HAS to be due to a mutation, trait, or cyborg module.

I get this is a video game and video games aren’t always realistic. But even from a gameplay perspective, I disagree with regenerating health. There are plenty of in-game medicines that will do it for you, and it already is extremely easy to get your health back after one or two nights of sleep.

That is why I instead want a new system that adds long-term wounds that require medicine. If regeneration is added anyway, I hope that more wound debuffs are added that limit the total amount of regeneration that can happen if there are pre-existing wounds on a certain area of the body. Even then I would rather these wounds would have to be dealt with using medical knowledge and supplies, but at the very least there needs to be more injuries that can occur to give a bit more depth to gameplay.[/quote]

So you are saying that there is zero tissue regen when not asleep? Okay i ll have to take you word for this as you seem to have more knowledge in the field.
It however sounds realy odd.
I always did asume that it would just slow down considerably.


#64

There is modest, very very modest, healing when you are active.


#65

Well are you studying medcine like neonwarrior?

As i see it he asserts that there isn t.


#66

And I agree with them.
The body is equipped to perform maintenance when you sleep. You shut down, your body sedates itself, and the energy not spent running itself is spent on catabolisis and repair. You regularly recycle your whole body. While sleeping.


#67

So you take back what you said earlier?


#68

Y? was it wrong?

Are you familiar with patch repairs?


#69

Neonwarrior said that regen only happens in resting state.

You said it does a little.

Which would contradict him.

Unless i misunderstand him he clearly said that there is no regen at all while not resting.

So do you agree with that or not?

I don t think i heard that before. But i might know what it means if you tell me in german. ( i ll look it up)

edit:

Never heard the term before in german either.

It refers to patching something up. Thats what i found about it-.


#70

Nope. We arent going to play semantics. Your body is equipped to stem the flow of blood, and patch damage.

You are trying to have cake and eat it.

^^ here. Your body purposely shuts down in order to fix itself.


#71

[quote=“pisskop, post:70, topic:12896”]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep

^^ here. Your body purposely shuts down in order to fix itself.[/quote]

I want to add, that the body use that time to do general maintenance besides repairing, that’s why in some games you earn a BUFF! after sleeping/resting.


#72

So when you say it heals you mean blood clot?

I am not trying to play anything. I simply did not understand you in that way. I honestly though you meant that the body actually heals while active.


#73

Your body can do minor tasks during the day, but the majority of healing is handled during sleep.

Theres talk that ‘power naps’ help overall wakfulness and energy levels much like eating several small meals a day is helpful to overall health.

Sleep is like drydock for a boat. You can patch a boat while it is floating and keep it running, but the best repairs happen when it is inactive.

P:

But Im no longer a ‘studying medicine’. Its now a minor hobby of mine.


#74

So minor tasks include bloodclot and other things you didn t mention now.

Excluding actual healing by regrowing missing tissue.

Did i understand correctly?


#75

The mechanism of tissue repair isn’t important here; this isn’t a medical forum. I was just bringing up why I think regeneration is unrealistic and shouldn’t be added, and why I thought that sleep regen should be nerfed. I want a more in-depth wound system to replace regen instead of just constantly regenerating your health.

I should also clarify that when I said that the body “only” heals in resting state, I meant that tissue repair only occurs when you’re not active. Blood clotting, inflammation, vasoconstriction, cytokine release, platelet release—these processes all happen the INSTANT you receive an injury. The immune system works to close and disinfect a wound, eventually forming a blood clot and a scab. However, it is just common sense that the actual healing of wounds (anabolic repair, building of new proteins) is sped up immensely by rest and sleep. It’s all due to the chemicals in the body that change during active and resting states. Like I said, the body takes energy AWAY from the immune system during intense exercise and the release of cortisol and epinephrine actually inhibits the immune system while speeding up the catabolism of fat and carbohydrates for short-term energy.

But none of that really matters, because we’re not talking about medicine here. Simply acknowledge that health regen during non-rest is unrealistic, makes the game easier and less fun, so don’t put it in the game.


#76

i’m glad you decided for all of us that “health regen during non-rest is unrealistic, makes the game easier and less fun, so don’t put it in the game”. Guess now there’s no point in keeping the topic open :stuck_out_tongue: Let’s go back to the potions system, spamming first aids on wounded body parts.
I’ll make sure to ask you what is or is not fun in the future


#77

[quote=“Ferodaktyl, post:76, topic:12896”]i’m glad you decided for all of us that “health regen during non-rest is unrealistic, makes the game easier and less fun, so don’t put it in the game”. Guess now there’s no point in keeping the topic open :stuck_out_tongue: Let’s go back to the potions system, spamming first aids on wounded body parts.
I’ll make sure to ask you what is or is not fun in the future[/quote]

Well hey, glad you agree with me. I do know what’s best after all.


#78

I’d just like to point out that we do have non-sleeping health regen in game. It’s available to the player through mutation.


#79

Do you think that there is no quantifiable evidence to support a claim that more HP per bp doesn’t make the game easier? Remember we aren’t talking about [I]a[/I] health point but 6 at a time.

Zombies deal 2d4 +1 for comparison. Basic shirts -armor- are 3cut 3bash. That’s half the basic Zed’s damage blocked by armor alone.


#80

The speed of ingame regen is whats unrealistic but not the fact that it happens in the first place.

I think the unnormal healing speed was justified by the fact that you have been contaminated by the blob.

I don t think its the right aproach to change things that are normal in the lore to suit our reality.