New repair discussion

Etherdreamer · 2016-01-02T20:35:49.000Z

I prefer add the need of an adequate tool for it. nerfing it to the ground is not the solution imo.

pisskop · 2016-01-02T20:37:28.000Z

String/thread aquisition wasnt nerfed. The effectiveness of the sewing kits were, and as a result thread is marginally more in demand.

TheKobold · 2016-01-02T20:51:11.000Z

I prefer add the need of an adequate tool for it. nerfing it to the ground is not the solution imo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nj71Ws-D2k

That is a large and complex machine only found in factory settings. Rope has pretty much always been made by hand except in large factory settings. I dont think we will get the ability to make or commandeer large factory machines as that would be to specialized and unrealistic. And yes it is a long time consuming feat because you have to weave yourself 10m/30ft of rope and make sure it wont break, i wish rope had more of a world use instead of mostly crafting. I wanna scale buildngs.

I did find a small wooden set up that would be useful for rope making though, might beable to convince some one to try and make it in the game.

Etherdreamer · 2016-01-02T20:53:36.000Z

But there is a low tech tools, and hi tech tools. Watch those manhacks! The example in the video is not even that big. Ingame could be a small motor, a frame and some extra scrap / electronic scrap maybe.

Rokmonkey · 2016-01-03T01:47:04.000Z

We’ve gone a bit off-topic I’d say.

Would anyone be able to explain what the new repair mechanics are? That would help guide the discussion.

Coolthulhu · 2016-01-03T02:45:03.000Z

Rokmonkey:

Would anyone be able to explain what the new repair mechanics are? That would help guide the discussion.

When you start soldering or sewing an item (repairing an existing one, not crafting a new one), you start doing an extended action, during which you auto-repeat the sewing action until some set trigger.

Old repairing required you to manually repeat every attempt.

There’s also balancing: old repair was very easy, new one is often harder than crafting the item from fresh ingredients, especially when trying to repair items with 1 or 2 points of durability left.
Old repair could be done in the middle of combat, new one requires you to devote some time to do it (comparable to crafting).
New repair is much more expensive. Old repair could easily get you a reinforced item with just 10 thread/batteries, with new one you can expect to spend 100. Hence the rag unraveling machine idea - this would help with mass-crafting thread to fuel the new sewing mechanics.

Etherdreamer · 2016-01-03T02:46:53.000Z

Actually all those little “offtopic” we said, are related or pokes around the system.

Coolthulhu:

[spoiler][quote=“Rokmonkey, post:45, topic:11181”]Would anyone be able to explain what the new repair mechanics are? That would help guide the discussion.

When you start soldering or sewing an item (repairing an existing one, not crafting a new one), you start doing an extended action, during which you auto-repeat the sewing action until some set trigger.

Old repairing required you to manually repeat every attempt.

There’s also balancing: old repair was very easy, new one is often harder than crafting the item from fresh ingredients, especially when trying to repair items with 1 or 2 points of durability left.
Old repair could be done in the middle of combat, new one requires you to devote some time to do it (comparable to crafting).
New repair is much more expensive. Old repair could easily get you a reinforced item with just 10 thread/batteries, with new one you can expect to spend 100. Hence the rag unraveling machine idea - this would help with mass-crafting thread to fuel the new sewing mechanics.[/spoiler][/quote]

So we can expect some tools around this? oc, there is lesser cheap tools, and complicated machines. Like when you need a full powered welder rig with gasoline / solars.

Random_dragon · 2016-01-03T03:51:18.000Z

Personally I think the amount of thread/battery consumed might be better if it was maybe half that 3-digit figure, or something in-between. Depends on what figure would be enough to make it, well…an investment, but not an obscene expense.

Especially when you question the realism argument when I’ve made a spool of thread last for multiple assorted repairs and minor oddball projects. Though that also brings into question how much length a “unit” of thread is implied to be. :V

Labtop_215 · 2016-01-03T05:16:34.000Z

Once you get 3 tailoring, you can craft a short rope from 30 rags, and disassemble it into long strings. Long Strings can be disassembled into short strings. Short strings are disassembled into 50 units of thread. It takes some time, but if your tailoring is at 3 or higher, and you keep unraveling rags, by hand, that’s either because you are desperate (can’t get 30 rags or are not willing to lose some thread to save some time (You lose 1200 thread, but whatever.) or because you never notice the new rope recipe.

If you are desperate, or nomadic, then slowly unraveling the rag like your life depends on it seems rather intentional, at least to me.

The only thing that got me with this system was actually how fast my tailoring skill just shot through the roof. 6 tailoring without even trying. Although the characters I play have 13 intelligence and I boost my mood frequently, so there is that.

pisskop · 2016-01-03T05:22:14.000Z

I play with slow learners often because skill gains are generally too fast. >.<

But then again, this is the player who modded dwarves in DF to be slowest learners they could be.

Im the one who discovered that [slow learner]s cant be appointed noble positions in player forts, thus you can never have even so much as a mayor.
And I also found the workaround was nerfing all skill gain, but the lower cap on that is still 50% according to therapist.

Coolthulhu · 2016-01-03T05:24:38.000Z

Labtop_215:

The only thing that got me with this system was actually how fast my tailoring skill just shot through the roof. 6 tailoring without even trying.

I probably should address the increased rate of xp somehow.
It was possible to do it before (extremely tediously) by repairing threads or handwraps, but now it’s not just possible but feasible.
The XP rate should probably get a nerf, preferably something that only affects higher levels of the skill.

multimark · 2016-01-04T10:39:26.000Z

Isn’t there a problem with the difficulty being too high? I’ve got tailoring 6, and i managed to damage my gloves liners 3 times while they were at max “health”, trying to renforce them.

Rokmonkey · 2016-01-04T11:50:32.000Z

multimark:

Isn’t there a problem with the difficulty being too high? I’ve got tailoring 6, and i managed to damage my gloves liners 3 times while they were at max “health”, trying to renforce them.

I was wondering the same thing.

I like the new repair mechanics, the addition of the repair balance did manage to confuse the heck out of me though.

Zireael · 2016-01-04T13:53:46.000Z

I like the new repair, it’s much easier to use than spamming a + sewing kit + item letter. However the thread usage seems too high…

pisskop · 2016-01-04T14:37:55.000Z

At 5 or 6 tailoring I still occassionally failed to reinforce items, and more rarely damage more complex items.

But I did succeed in repairing my clothing well before then. Sewing is highly dependent upon dex. As an alcoholic I have to stop and drink fairly regularly, and I have to watch what drink, because anything too hard (like moonshine) will dehydrate me and destroy my dex as much as any shake syndrome if I drink it enough to stay drunk.

Dex is typically my weakest attribuite to begin with too. Buff your dex, keep in mind the RNG is stll the RNG, and dont push waht you cant lose.

Im a little surprised that its not even harder. If 2-3 is considered competent by the game (it is, according to the factions menu and evidenced by professions in character gen) than 4-5 is proficient and 6 professional. iirc, thats what DF named its skill levels ;). this more or less falls in. Much better than before where it was possible to literally achieve a fully fortifed set of clothing (except for things like rucksacks which are thick, hard material and designed to actually varied carry heavy loads) on day 1, in about 12 hours. Im much happier with the effects of repairing things like steel spears too. I spent half a day with level 4 mechanics struggling with a spear to get it fortifed, but the crude makeshift crowbar was done in ten minutes.

Charge useage is more in line with ‘in between welders and before’. Fun fact, welders would use 50 charge per attempt to repair metal items.

Random_dragon · 2016-01-04T15:56:00.000Z

Zireael:

I like the new repair, it’s much easier to use than spamming a + sewing kit + item letter. However the thread usage seems too high…

Agreed. This is just about the only sticking point I have with the new system.

pisskop · 2016-01-04T16:03:11.000Z

Y? how much thread should a repair job cost? a 6-inch string is 50 threads.

It takes 6 seconds to smash a window. 6 seconds to pick a long string up. a bit under an hour to decon it into 300 thread.

Its not cost intensive to get. under the old system 300 - 450 thread was enough to take you to mid-game, and 300 more would serve a player not swapping clothing out for seasons.

4 windows, 30 seconds worth of work, was enough to make it to late game.

Random_dragon · 2016-01-04T16:05:46.000Z

That’s the other half of the problem. That amount of drain adds up rapidly, but I’m unsure how much of a nerf would be acceptable. -_-

Voqar · 2016-01-04T16:40:24.000Z

Just when you thought you’d seen the every “SIM” game…here comes Seamstress Simulator 2016.

I’m indifferent I guess. I thought the old system (just weeks ago) was very good and detailed enough and don’t see much point in how it’s changed, but I don’t hate the new system.

It seems like the fail rate is higher even when you get a decent amount of skill, and you waste a lot of time on simple things. I’m not a big fan of wasting time but whatever.

Not too long ago I could just activate my kit on an item and it would repair or reinforce depending on what was needed - nice and clean. Now it’s a drawn out and lots more actions to achieve the same goal. I’m not really seeing much gain here. For some situations where you’d have to repeat a lot, like at low skills, the do until done option is nice - but overall this seems to have added a lot of unnecessary tedium to something that was already pretty solid.

This could be a change that I’d lump under the punish the players category moreso than the adds to the game category. It adds tedium and time sink more than it adds quality. IMO. This one element of the game (tailoring) doesn’t really need to be so overly complex vs the rest of the game. /shrug

pisskop · 2016-01-04T16:42:06.000Z

Tailoring is important.

Its crafting. If weapon crafting is important, than armor crafting is too. And tailoring is in many cases in this game armor-crafting.

Its not sewing doilys for your table. Its sewing battle gear, duffel bags, and honorary items. The military makes sure you know how to sew on your patches of honor, and it presumably extends to survival training for marines. Its a skill, and a useful one when all of a sudden nobody is around to do it.