Nerf to corrosive and/or necromancers

[pingpong]

Together they are the most insane combinations of enemies. The corrosive zombie, even with 7 dodge, hits easily. Then the necromancer can revive him within one turn. Even if you manage to kill the corrosive the first time, your legs are damaged and you’re moving slower. Then it revives and breaks your legs. Even if you kill it, surprise, you can’t get to the necromancer. Just these two, alone, might be doable, but then any zombie in the area will also get revived. Including another necromancer.

The only way out I can imagine is suicide detonating explosives. I was able to kill the zombie hulk again, get out of the building, kill the corrosive zombie twice, kill the necromancer, only for it to be revived by another necromancer. All of these were found within a like 10x10 area.

Even just a simple revive-delay timer, or a 1 or 2 revive limit. Or for god sake at least make the zombie necromancers not able to revive each-other.

[Coolthulhu]

The problem with necromancers is that they only use HP as a measure of rez speed and that corpses don’t retain their damage status between rezes.

Not sure what would be a good measure of rez speed other than hp, but making zombies become “mutilated” (until they regen) when rezed from a wrecked corpse would help with uncontrolable rezing.

[deoxy]

Even just a simple revive-delay timer

Yes, that combo can be a bit difficult, really, nothing is as bad as a horde of anything with 4+ necros in the back. It’s not THAT hard to deal with, though, not really… just don’t even think about going at it head on! Yeah, that’s suicide!

But yes, there IS a revive delay - not sure of the mechanic, but once they’ve revived enough in a short enough period, they start reviving things noticeably less often/slower.

[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:2, topic:12052”]The problem with necromancers is that they only use HP as a measure of rez speed and that corpses don’t retain their damage status between rezes.

Not sure what would be a good measure of rez speed other than hp, but making zombies become “mutilated” (until they regen) when rezed from a wrecked corpse would help with uncontrolable rezing.[/quote]

Not sure if it applies to necros rezing, but normal zombies rezzing themselves ARE affected by the condition of the corpse, rather dramatically if the damage is high.

But then, if you barely kill them, they leave an undamaged corpse, so the next time they get up, they’re all better. (Is that what you were talking about?) Not sure what to do about that…

[Coolthulhu]

[quote=“deoxy, post:3, topic:12052”]Not sure if it applies to necros rezing, but normal zombies rezzing themselves ARE affected by the condition of the corpse, rather dramatically if the damage is high.

But then, if you barely kill them, they leave an undamaged corpse, so the next time they get up, they’re all better. (Is that what you were talking about?) Not sure what to do about that…[/quote]

Like what I said: making them retain some sort of mutilated status could be used to keep the track of body damage.
Then damaged corpses would produce mutilated zombies, who would die and become slightly more damaged corpses, until pulping.

[Solusphere]

I once had to clear a FEMA camp with three necromancers, two hulks, three corrosive zombies and about 20 more of various types. Now THAT took a lot of killing. I ended up setting the corpses on fire as soon as they fell. Worked reasonably well once I got the hang of it.

[deoxy]

[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:4, topic:12052”][quote=“deoxy, post:3, topic:12052”]Not sure if it applies to necros rezing, but normal zombies rezzing themselves ARE affected by the condition of the corpse, rather dramatically if the damage is high.

But then, if you barely kill them, they leave an undamaged corpse, so the next time they get up, they’re all better. (Is that what you were talking about?) Not sure what to do about that…[/quote]

Like what I said: making them retain some sort of mutilated status could be used to keep the track of body damage.
Then damaged corpses would produce mutilated zombies, who would die and become slightly more damaged corpses, until pulping.[/quote]

Damaged corpses DO produce mutilated zombies - their stats are reduced (including speed), so they are MUCH easier to kill. Just need to make the corpse drop take that into account. And probably give necros or masters the ability to SLOWLY heal them, or something…

I ended up setting the corpses on fire as soon as they fell. Worked reasonably well once I got the hang of it.

Does that prevent the necros from rezzing? Being on fire?

What I do (which is quite a bit harder with hulks around! they see farther than the others, draw them away) is use advanced inventory management to move the corpses onto my own square as soon as they fall - can’t rez corpses with something on top of them. A little harder to manage with acid around, but not impossible.

[Arek_PL]

its not op its just side effect of nerfing acid

best option should be higher delay

[pisskop]

[quote=“deoxy, post:6, topic:12052”][quote=“Coolthulhu, post:4, topic:12052”][quote=“deoxy, post:3, topic:12052”]Not sure if it applies to necros rezing, but normal zombies rezzing themselves ARE affected by the condition of the corpse, rather dramatically if the damage is high.

But then, if you barely kill them, they leave an undamaged corpse, so the next time they get up, they’re all better. (Is that what you were talking about?) Not sure what to do about that…[/quote]

Like what I said: making them retain some sort of mutilated status could be used to keep the track of body damage.
Then damaged corpses would produce mutilated zombies, who would die and become slightly more damaged corpses, until pulping.[/quote]

Damaged corpses DO produce mutilated zombies - their stats are reduced (including speed), so they are MUCH easier to kill. Just need to make the corpse drop take that into account. And probably give necros or masters the ability to SLOWLY heal them, or something…

I ended up setting the corpses on fire as soon as they fell. Worked reasonably well once I got the hang of it.

Does that prevent the necros from rezzing? Being on fire?

What I do (which is quite a bit harder with hulks around! they see farther than the others, draw them away) is use advanced inventory management to move the corpses onto my own square as soon as they fall - can’t rez corpses with something on top of them. A little harder to manage with acid around, but not impossible.[/quote]
This could be done by giving them several ‘versions’ of scarred zombies they can evolve into, but Im not sure how much the effort it will be worth when I rarely see scarred zombies.

[Solusphere]

Does that prevent the necros from rezzing? Being on fire?

It damages the corpses to the point they can’t be rezzed after a few turns. They can be rezzed before then, but when they are, they’re still on fire, so the problem usually takes care of itself pretty quickly.

[Kryxx]

[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:2, topic:12052”]The problem with necromancers is that they only use HP as a measure of rez speed and that corpses don’t retain their damage status between rezes.

Not sure what would be a good measure of rez speed other than hp, but making zombies become “mutilated” (until they regen) when rezed from a wrecked corpse would help with uncontrolable rezing.[/quote]

What determines decay? That has to be a timer correct? Because if you go and try and butcher an animal corpse after a day or so things are ‘rotten’.

If you can use that timer for some sort of ‘minimum’ threshold for the rez delay it would work. I believe all corpses have this also right? as eventually corpses/flesh does decay.

[Alasnuyo]

In my experience, necromancers tend not to actively give chase if you ran. This is an exploitable behaviour, especially if the necromancer comes with a horde, or worse, several necromancers in a horde.

If you spot them in the distance, you close in slowly until some zeds in the fringes saw you and give chase. Run. Then kill the zeds when far away enough from the necromancers. Pulp the corpses. Rinse and repeat until horde is destroyed.

As for corrosive zeds, I just stick to ranged weaponries. Going CQC on them is not a good idea, what’s with the reflexive acid spray thing they have.

In fact, ranged attack is king in the early games, considering how easy it is to train for them. My current character achieved 15 in throwing skills in the first month, armed with only a dozen stone javelins. Throwing them with your bare hands don’t destroy the javelins and are always quieter and more accurate than using an atlatl. The javelins allowed me to survive until I managed to craft pneumatic weapons.

[Coolthulhu]

[quote=“Kryxx, post:10, topic:12052”]What determines decay? That has to be a timer correct? Because if you go and try and butcher an animal corpse after a day or so things are ‘rotten’.

If you can use that timer for some sort of ‘minimum’ threshold for the rez delay it would work. I believe all corpses have this also right? as eventually corpses/flesh does decay.[/quote]

That timer is adjusted for items that rot to allow different rotting speed in different temperature.
It doesn’t count down at all in cold winters and it speeds up in the summer.