Mutagen is too rare compare to CBM

[Valpo]

There should be something that helps me “save” my current genetical makeup.
So i can purify back to my state of beeing a tentacle monster… should i have grown a pair of unwanted insect wings … for instance… without risking to purge what i wana keep-.

[vache]

That’s far too overpowered. Mutagen is supposed to be a mixed bag. The non-deterministic factor is what separates it from CBMs.

One thing that might be interesting and allow the player to offset it a little bit might be to create specialized mutagens that grant from a much smaller pool of mutations. Say mixing something like a bear and an alpha mutagen creates a mutagen that has the intersection of traits between those two categories, both positive and negative. The crafting system doesn’t really support mixing recipes like that right now though. There would have to be a single recipe for every combination.

[Valpo]

keeps no one from savescumming i supose. You can just mix in bad traits into a dna fix. like you wanna keep this trait? well you ll have to keep the other one there too. I see no problem.

[Wally-kun]

I thought mutagen was supposed to be brewed, thus why you don’t typically find it laying around, right? CBM’s you have to go find, because they’re professionally made except for some of the most basic ones. Mutagens are a cocktail nightmare concoction brewed up by daring survivors with access to classified chemical information from looted labs. It’s unstable and potentially powerful. CBM’s are more stable but are almost impossible to replicate on one’s own save for the most simple things.

There does need to be more tradeoff though. NPC’s will provide a lot of that later but mutations should limit your options more. Just like CBM’s need spaces to be filled instead of just plugging them endlessly into one another so they’re towering out of you in the slots you keep wedging them into.

AND, there should be some big risks in combining mutations with CBM’s. Those things weren’t designed for mutated anatomy. Increase in failure rate for the number of mutations maybe?

[Zireael]

[quote=“vache, post:22, topic:9479”]That’s far too overpowered. Mutagen is supposed to be a mixed bag. The non-deterministic factor is what separates it from CBMs.

One thing that might be interesting and allow the player to offset it a little bit might be to create specialized mutagens that grant from a much smaller pool of mutations. Say mixing something like a bear and an alpha mutagen creates a mutagen that has the intersection of traits between those two categories, both positive and negative. The crafting system doesn’t really support mixing recipes like that right now though. There would have to be a single recipe for every combination.[/quote]

I love the mixing mutagen idea!

[Valpo]

Mixing mutagens would yield the same result as saving traits.
With the differens: It would be easier and faster to build what you want and you can not fall back to your build after sufering from unwanted mutation like radiation or a yugg attack or telesickness enduced mutations.

[kevin.granade]

Mutagens are supposed to be unreliable to manage, it’s their primary balance mechanism. a mutation causing zombie on every block would be rather unreasonable, but some monsters in a mutation-themed area would be perfectly reasonable. Also I’m thinking any mutation-causing effect would have a very low hit rate, like the ones that are already present, so if you prioritize taking those enemies out you should be fine, and as with most other things in the game, fighting them or not is up to you.

[Azrad]

It would be nice to have some more variety in labs, though. Once you’ve explored one or two labs, you pretty much figure out how to deal with all labs, and it becomes very easy to loot down everything. Much easier than raiding a city with a large spawn rate.

Just a random idea, but how about a lab that sort of fits in with a theme of certain mutagen. For example, plant mutagen labs have some sort of underground garden, where you can find some seeds and whatnot, and have a more forest-like area, or some sort of greenhouse. Maybe some triffids, or some type of plant monster. Or a fish/cephalopod lab, where some areas are flooded with water and you have to actually rely on the swimming skill. A slime lab where the entire place is pretty much covered in blob; walls are coated, some doors are slimed and you might have to find a way to pry the blobbed doors open, and blob type enemies to fight.

And some more generic-type labs. Like a lab that’s been somewhat bombed. Lots of wrecked rooms, some walls are broken down so there’s more open space… like containment areas so the things inside are roaming more freely in the labs, or due to some walls being destroyed there would be less cover to protect you from turrets, that sort of thing. Some areas could be radioactive, and maybe the radioactive areas have caused some side-effects with the denizens of the lab.