More sizes for clothin

Game Talk The Drawing Board
1

I apologize for the quality of the text. Deepl translate is used.

What do you think about adding more clothing sizes to the game? Besides normal, XL and XS.

Some initial data (taken conditionally, for example):

  • character’s height ranges from 50 to 325 centimeters (need verification);
  • the step equals 25 centimeters or size±12,5 cm, which is rounded to ±12;
  • the average height of the character is 175 cm (default).
Size (now) Size (new) Height, cm Height, cm K1 = Height / 175 K2 = K1^2
XS 50 50 + 12 50…62 0,29 0,08
XS 75 75 ± 12 63…87 0,43 0,18
XS 100 100 ± 12 88…112 0,57 0,33
XS 125 125 ± 12 113…137 0,71 0,51
normal 150 150 ± 12 138…162 0,86 0,73
normal 175 175 ± 12 163…187 1 1
normal 200 200 ± 12 188…212 1,14 1,31
XL 225 225 ± 12 213…237 1,29 1,65
XL 250 250 ± 12 238…262 1,43 2,04
XL 275 275 ± 12 263…287 1,57 2,47
XL 300 300 ± 12 288…312 1,71 2,94
XL 325 325 - 12 313…325 1,86 3,45

Size (new) = 25 x ( Height / 25) ( / - in the sense of integer division)

As I see it (a person far from programming). Think of it as a source of ideas.

Clothing as a finished object.

Two new sections:

  • “Size_drop” - defines the size of clothing that can be generated as loot.
  • “Size_craft” - defines the size of clothes that can be created by the player.

Each section lists all possible size variants: Size_any, Size_XS, Size_normal, Size_XL, Size_50, Size_75, … Size_325.

Size_any, Size_XS, Size_normal, Size_XL are shorthand for the respective ranges.

Example.

"Size_drop":["Size_normal","Size_125", "Size_225"]
"Size_craft":["Size_any"]

Means that you can create clothes of any size. But in the world you can only find clothes in normal size or slightly smaller (125) or slightly larger (225).

If the character’s height is within the Size_N±12 range, the clothes are considered to be a size appropriate. When generating clothes: 1d25 to determine fit / poor fit.

Clothing recipe.

New section “Size_craft”, exactly the same as for clothes.

The logic is as follows: the number of components required varies according to a coefficient (K2). If a recipe requires a finished item, it requires an item with the same size or a size that includes that size. The time is also changed according to the size. Coefficient K1 or K2

Example (ignore the errors in the code):

    "result": "example"
    "Size_craft": [ "Size_50", "Size_175" ]
    "time": "10 h",
    "using": [ "tailoring_canvas_patchwork", 100 ],
    "components": [  "belt", 1 ]

For example [Size_175] you need:

  • 100 tailoring_canvas_patchwork
  • 1 belt [Size_175] or belt [Size_normal] or belt [Size_any]
    Creation time = 10 hours

For example [Size_50] you need:

  • 0,08 x 100 tailoring_canvas_patchwork
  • 1 belt [Size_50] or belt [Size_XL] or belt [Size_any]
    Creation time = 0,08 x 10 or 0,29 x 10 hours. Depends on which coefficient to use.

Issues

  • Need a way to select size in the craft menu.
  • Need a way to check size labels for component and result. To eliminate variations where the result can be anything and the component is only a certain size.
  • May need some changes for item generation.
  • Lots of work to rework current recipes and items.

Benefits

  • More variety in the game.
  • Reduced number of recipes and items, as well as copying errors.
  • Parameters for the entire size line are set once and do not depend on the size. Or they can be changed according to predefined conditions (encumbrance).
  • It is easy to add or remove a recipe for a specific size.
  • It’s easy to change the step. By adding new sizes. Or by removing them.

Example for encumbrance. A 187 cm character wears a size_100 item.
size_character = 25 * ( Height / 25) = 25 * 7 = 175
size_clothing = 100
additional encumbrance = 10 * ( abs (size_clothing - size_character) / 25) = 10 * ( abs (100-175) / 25 = 10 * (75 / 25) = 30.

I hope I didn’t confuse anything. abs is modulus, / is integer division.

2

Sizes are not just 1 dimensional thing, its not just about tall/short and fat/thin, its about mutant anatomy as well. What sort of size would a small troglodyte with high strength require for the clothes to fit?
I like that you parametrize parametrizable mechanics, but body in CDDA is way too complex of an object to describe in 1-2-3 parameters, so the current fit/does not fit system is fine as as, I believe. It sacrifices a tiny bit of realism for a system that gives you almost everything you want with a minimal overhead.

I think that if you want to go down cm scale level of detail your efforts would be better spent on differentiating screws, nuts, bolts, nails, etc. If there was some sort of generic attaching-stuff category ranging from duct tape and bone glue to nuts, bolts, solder, welds etc, with qualities such as strength, shear and torsion and vibration resistance, thermal resistance, chemical resistance, materials and object sizes that can be attached, how long that stuff lasts, etc etc parametrized then we would be able to make quick car repairs with duct tape which is both realistic and funny. But even though I believe this suggestion is better than yours it’s still not worth proposing because its a LOT of work for a minor gain compared to the potential gain from a lot less work in other areas.

3

This adds tedium in the form of searching for clothes of the right size. It can be noted that clothing stores have a lot less than they realistically would, and that’s partially because you don’t need as much because it’s abstracted to a standard size. Increasing the clutter not only increases the search tedium, but it also slows down the game.

As @Pupker mentioned, people don’t vary in length only. In the real world girth is another factor.

The current crafting system does not support crafting time (and effort) being dependent on the selected input (or tools). It would be a worthwhile improvement to implement such a support, but I don’t think it would be useful to then use it to implement this suggestion (as opposed to e.g. allow the usage of a chain saw make crafting faster than using a hand saw, but only for the sawing segment of the crafting: having a chain saw doesn’t make a hammer faster for the nailing segment).

4

Size is not a one dimensional thing. I agree, that’s why I’m talking about the square.

Imagine there is some ideal human figure. And to simplify, we change the width in proportion to the height. Let’s call it simplified model number 1.

You can add detail and go to simplified model number 2.

There are traits in the game: very short and very tall. They change the character’s height. Maybe something else, but I’m not sure. I assume they also affect the kilocalorie limits. This is what’s displayed in the weight column. Normal weight, overweight, and so on.

But since I’m relying on the character’s height, let’s pretend they change to traits: thin and thick. The names are arbitrary. They are necessary to represent the build of a person of the same height. So thin, with the same height and weight, will look like a thinner character. And a thick one as a fatter one. And I’ll emphasize, the weight is the same. It’s the density of the person, if you will.

Then let’s add a flag:

"human_constitution":["hc_thin","hc_thick"]

This flag (or lack thereof) will determine whether the clothing fits the character with (or without) the appropriate traits.

In crafting, this can be accounted for by an additional K3 factor. Changes the amount of materials.

K3
thin 0,9
thick 1,1

If necessary, we expand the number of features: thin_x2 and add to the mutation lines.

Simplified model number 3
We can make it even more complicated. Let’s take into account the weight of the person. And let’s not forget the build.

K4
thin -1
thick +1
K5 var1 K5 var2
Skeletal -3 -2
Emaciated -2 -1
Underweight -1 0
Normal 0 0
Overweight +1 0
Obese +2 +1
Very obese +3 +2
Morbidly obese +4 +3

Now sum it up. K6 = K4 + K5. It is easy to see that K6 ranges from -4 to +5 in the first variant and from -3 to +4 in the second variant.

Let’s add a new section we’ll call “body mass index” (BMI). Here is how it is defined:

BMI K7
-4 BMI_-4 0,80
-3 BMI_-3 0,85
-2 BMI_-2 0,90
-1 BMI_-1 0,95
0 BMI_0 0,00
+1 BMI_+1 1,05
+2 BMI_+2 1,10
+3 BMI_+3 1,15
+4 BMI_+4 1,20
+5 BMI_+5 1,25

The corresponding flag will determine whether the clothes fit the character. For each additional deviation we will add 1…2 encumbrances. K7 - to change the required materials.

Example 1. Clothing BMI_0. It is suitable for (K5 var1):

  • a normal person (no weight problems and no trait);
  • a person with Overweight (+1) and thin (-1);
  • a person with Underweight (-1) and thick (+1).

It is suitable for (K5 var2):

  • Normal person;
  • a person with Overweight (0) or Underweight (0) but no trait;
  • a person with Obese (+1) weight and thin (-1);
  • a person with Emaciated weight (-1) and thick (+1).

Example 2. Clothing BMI_4. It is suitable for (K5 var1) :

  • a person with Morbidly obese (+4);
  • a person with Very obese (+3) and thick (+1).

I’m just saying. I don’t like this option.

The main reason, it is difficult to explain to the player. If everything is clear with the height, see your height and choose your clothes. With thin and thick, if the description of the clothes will be mentioned, then everything is also clear. With BMI you will need a full-fledged help, and preferably a calculator.

So if it is to be used, then only for additional encumbrance. Incentive to return the character to normal weight.

5

@ Pupker

I think that if you want to go down cm scale level of detail your efforts would be better spent on differentiating screws, nuts, bolts, nails, etc.

I don’t know how to program. So my maximum is to suggest ideas. Without translating them into code.

I don’t think adding lots of bolts, nuts, and other hardware is what the game needs. But that’s my personal opinion.

@ PALU

This adds tedium in the form of searching for clothes of the right size. It can be noted that clothing stores have a lot less than they realistically would, and that’s partially because you don’t need as much because it’s abstracted to a standard size.

I both agree and disagree with you at the same time.

Yes, it will make it harder to find clothes. But how often do you look for it? Most armor is created, not found. The problems will be with late game armor that can be found but can’t be created. If I’m not confused, it’s power armor and RM13.

Further, the chances of finding the right one only decrease by a factor of 3. And that doesn’t mean you’ll be left without armor. It’s more like armor, but with a bigger encumbrance.

And for mutants, nothing will change at all. There’s no XS and XL drop.

Also your post got me thinking. What do I like in the game? For me it’s killing mobs and searching items. Also character improvement, which includes crafting equipment. But not the crafting process itself or the preparation for it (learning proficiencies).

And strangely enough, for me the adding of sizes will change almost nothing. The game will become a little more logical, but only just. So maybe you are right, the sizes are not necessary.