Level progression/World progression in Cataclysm

Ok, i wrote this for a topic where there was a discussion about how to make the game progressively harder. I wrote this, and i think it needs its own thread.

So, the points are:

You want to make the game harder as the player progresses.
You want to make the survival aspect of the game more noticeable.
You don’t want to make the hard gameplay come with time.

We only have a way out of this. It is not nerfing the actual items and stuff. Water is ok as it is. If you read the lore, you could get that it is not actually going to change. Or at least that is what i think.

I have a suggestion: Triggers.

Events that trigger things.

My principal suggestion is lore-based. If you don’t know a lot about the lore, it may spoiler everything a bit.
The thing is that in the labs there is supposed to be portals. Like the portals that sometimes spawn in the middle of the place. I have the idea of a huge underground place, the final room of special labs, that have a really big machine with a command interface. You enter there, and activate, before hacking it. A portal appears.

We now have the World Creator. What it means? It means we can have multiple worlds in the same game folder. Cool. What about, with activating that portal, triggering series of events that conduce to… Level 2.

In Level 1, the Earth, portals start to appear. Weak NetherCreatures start to spawn. Hell on Earth. The thing is to not make the game more survivor oriented, but to add better ceratures. Different things. All corresponding to the Lore, of course.

In Level 2 (the one you opened, the one you enter in the portal) is totally different. Is the Nether. No grass. Red rock is your dirt. Lava everywhere. Cities? I think they are some kind of Nether villages with creatures living in them, aggresive to you. No place to hide. It is very hot, you can’t carry much clother, or you will burn alive. It is really dark, all time You can see just 5 tiles in front of you. The Nether has food and water. The water is not good. The animals have to be distainted, like the zombies. There are, sometimes, portals to come back. Giant creatures without eyes follow your essence everywhere. Lots of artifacts. Lots of temples. All is red as lava. Doom on Cataclysm.

As you go, you go deeper in the Hell, activating different portals or maybe going trough caves that go deeper in Hell, different levels. You could have End Game content. You could have better weapons. As you go, you find more temples, at a point where you can see some kind of civilization in there, that does not like you. Places like the labs, where you can see notes and stuff that tell you a bit more of Lore. Say hi to the Devil from me.

That was the post. I think it is one of the only lore-based ways to make the game progressively challenging, interesting, mysterious and it gives more than enough place to add whatever it comes to our minds to play with. The Nether is like a playground now, some people want to add it, some people say it is ok how the game is right now, so this could satisfy both teams, you don’t want to go to the Nether and make Hell On Earth, don’t activate the portal.

Holy hell, yes!

The Netherrealm absolutely should be expanded, the only question is whether it can be done so in a satisfying way. This sounds like a good start.

I think it would be awesome to see the progressive take-over of Earth. Towns in ruins; adorned with Nether, Cyclopean monuments and obelisks. Lave rifts that tore through houses, split streets in half. Human remains displayed as trophies. Flayed remains of survivors. Some vivisected and left to rot, some butchered.

what happenes if you go through all the levels of hell then you wake up from a coma GASP then youre one of those crazy people who tries to destroy humanity by causing a zombie apoco- wait, we’re going around in circles here.

Well, here we have the so-waited endgame material. Killing the Nether bosses, exploring some really big temples, destroying a devil city, etc. If we have the factions, we could do Nether Factions. That sounded great.

So, any idea?

One observation, the “harder levels” don’t have to be a whole new world (though that’s not a bad idea), the normal progression could easily be that you spawn outside a small town, then get quests to head into a large town (more zombies), a lab or similar compound in the forest (harder still), a special compound in a big city (crushingly difficult to even get to the compound, absurdly hard to fight your way through), at which point you find a portal and head to alt world, and the progression starts over, but even more difficult. And the whole time the zombies are evolving and getting harder over time as well…

It gives you a reason to exist, even if it is a sandbox. End-game content is necesary, it is the hardest point of the game. I mean, is necesary because when you defeat it, you know there is nothing more to do, the game is simply finished. You can still play, but you already did everything. It is the thing that marks the “you can start over and try a different way!”. And there will always be, is a roguelike.

I know the levels stuff is kind of weird, in fact, i want only the Earth and the Nether. I think these 2 should be kinda look a like but different in the sense of the ambience, creatures, buildings (obviously not houses and stuff, i think about temples and weird villages)

It would be fun to explorate that. There is a way to make a whole new world setting?
Like to change the spawns and terrain construction to resemble the Hell. I think it is possible, but maybe it is not that simple of just changing the items and some other stuff… is hardcoded or not?

I can see the hassle in having to generate a whole new map for a ‘level two’, but think of all the possibilities it opens up: lore based less loot, damaged towns, ect.

But the idea of a progression system is just awesome in any way.

I already mentioned in the other threat: I love the idea! Going with everything you can carry into the unknown, never to return… Thats great story material and offers players something to aim for.

The Nether would be great already, but just think about the possibilities:

[ul][li]frozen Wasteland[/li]
[li]Aquaworld[/li]
[li]Timemachine transporting you millenias into the future or millions of years into the past (because both are so distant, you wouldn’t even need to preserve the terrain, but could generate a whole new world), in the future everything is mutated beyond all recognition, humanity extinct; the past offers no loot at all[/li]
[li]the freaking moon (bring the oxygen tanks, loot the apollo missions)[/li][/ul]

[quote=“StopSignal, post:1, topic:4448”]In Level 1, the Earth, portals start to appear. Weak NetherCreatures start to spawn. Hell on Earth. The thing is to not make the game more survivor oriented, but to add better ceratures. Different things. All corresponding to the Lore, of course.

In Level 2 (the one you opened, the one you enter in the portal) is totally different. Is the Nether. No grass. Red rock is your dirt. Lava everywhere. Cities? I think they are some kind of Nether villages with creatures living in them, aggresive to you. No place to hide. It is very hot, you can’t carry much clother, or you will burn alive. It is really dark, all time You can see just 5 tiles in front of you. The Nether has food and water. The water is not good. The animals have to be distainted, like the zombies. There are, sometimes, portals to come back. Giant creatures without eyes follow your essence everywhere. Lots of artifacts. Lots of temples. All is red as lava. Doom on Cataclysm.[/quote]

While I like the “Triggers” aspect, and am happy to see any discussion about making more challenging, later game content …

… you totally just (maybe accidentally) ripped off Minecraft. :wink: lol

What about … if the player dies he didn’t really die, he just woke up from a very bad dream, which is, suddenly, reality. All skills the character has gained will be halfed but remain, half the number of aquired implants will be removed, power in total removed. All items aquired will be gone. Positive Mutations will half the level, negative ones double and half of them all will be removed.

The new start with this ‘woken up’ character will be hell itself. No normal zombies at all, only brutes, smokers, masters, necromancers and up. ‘Normal’ wildlife will be removed with Zom-versions of them. Food and stuff will be very scarce. Each day a real struggle to survive. Hunger, thirst, wildlife, former humans, netherworldlings -> all there to kill the character.

So, you get your normal game, and then a 2nd run where you will ultimately die. Forever. It doesn’t need to be fair, just there to kill you. Or see how long you survive. A little bonus to the experience before.

@Dominae: Whopps, it is like Minecraft in fact. But see it this way: In Minecraft, you can make your house, etc… while here is to get more about the lore, temples with demons that aren’t pigs… oh dammit. It is exactly like it. I DID NOT MEANT THAT WAY.

But it does not has to be like MC. I mean, it will never be, it is a roguelike. And the lore almost permits or obligates this “rip off”.

@xibalba: I like the idea, but you are making going to labs almost suicidal, and it always is, but now it is even more harder. Pointless. Going to labs is a bit pointless now, but you can get nice items. THEN you should be prepared to kill Nether monsters. If it is the other way, you will most likely get killed.

@prytoclasm: I see your idea a bit too much. I think it is like a “Hard mode”, but… it is a bit weird. idk.

lol no worries. … though, now you’ve got me thinking “Hmm, Minecr@ft” … would that actually be awesome? I mean, theres a DoomRL.

@xibalba: I like the idea, but you are making going to labs almost suicidal, and it always is, but now it is even more harder. Pointless. Going to labs is a bit pointless now, but you can get nice items. THEN you should be prepared to kill Nether monsters. If it is the other way, you will most likely get killed.

Labs totally need a boost in the near future. Zero (and I mean ZERO) danger to them right now. The turret changes may make some rooms dangerous now (though, I just always (C)lose the door and ignore those rooms anyway, theres nothing in them) but as of right now they’re basically free more-than-you’ll-ever-carry water, clothing/cloth/thread, CBMs & mutagens, etc.

IMHO they should feel like a scene from ‘Alien’. Dark, flashing lights, constant “omg what was that noise?!” and danger.