Item blacklist mod discussion

It’s a high-end, lightweight, collapsible police baton used mainly by law enforcement; generic Tonfas aren’t collapsable, lightweight, or as expensive. It adds flavour and realism to the world. It only spawns in police-related locations.

So it’s completely unlike the tonfa in the game. Why were you arguing for renaming the in-game item to something inaccurate?

Because PR-24 is also used as a generic term for any 24-inch-long side-handle police baton, sort of like how Kleenex is used instead of tissue. I already said that.

I’m adding the Monadnock PR-24, the actual brand name item.

Alright, nobody said watches when specifying jewellery The idea was necklaces , rings , dental grills and the like. Watches are hardly jewellery.

Also stop arguing about semantics, for the love of god.

Wristwatches should stay, nobody wants them out since they’re not jewellery.
I don’t really care about tonfas. They’re marginal.
Bikinis are useless except for rolepalying, they’re just useless torso encumbrance that covers 5 % of the body. And let’s be reasonable here, fur bikinis are illogical. Nobody said anything about swimwear, just bikinis.

Yep, wristwatches are very useful; they are far from jewellery.

I agree that watches shouldn’t be removed in the mod, at least not wristwatches. Wristwatches aren’t “jewelry” by anybody’s standards, they are a functional tool. I have to wonder if the misinterpretation of their inclusion in “jewelry” wasn’t a purposeful, passive-agressive way of lashing out against people who wanted content removed in the first place.

Regardless, since the hot topic right now appears to be the Tonfa, here’s my two cents: Having lived in New England for my entire life, I have never seen police officers here wielding or holding a Tonfa, or a tactical baton, or anything of that sort. They use small firearms, stun guns, and also carry knives, though the latter is mostly intended as a tool for cutting through ropes and the like.

…HOWEVER, I have also almost never seen a tonfa spawned in DDA, only available as a weapon that can be crafted. And since a tonfa is NOT a complex thing for a beginner with some fabrication skill to create in real life (the version described in-game is basically a stick with a shorter stick tied to it, or a hunk of molded plastic in the same shape). If we’re talking about removing ludicrous and rare foreign weaponry, such as katanas, I believe the tonfa should still be included but only as a player-craftable weapon.

(Possibly could be renamed the more generic “police baton”, as to be completely honest the average American (including myself previously) only knows the tonfa as: “That baton the coppers use in England because they aren’t allowed to use guns.” (And before anybody jumps down my throat about that statement, I realize it’s a gross generalization, but that is the first thing that springs to people’s minds over here when they see a tonfa)

Really?! And I think implying of others’ wrongdoings without concrete proof is passive-agrresive too and a good way to start a flamewar too. The developers haven’t give a reply to why the normal wristwatch was included, so for now can we just assume it’s a mistake???

One satirical throw-away line in my post is the only thing you quote, without any actual comment on the real content of the post (the part related to the tonfa discussion)

Getting mad at me for “starting a flamewar” while only quoting (and therefore drawing particular attention to) the single controversial line of my post and making it more likely people will notice it.

I don’t even…

No I didn’t get mad at you because that would be stupid of me. And I already made my point that the inclusion of wristwatch is probably a mistake unless the dev say otherwise. I just tired of the circle of people taking cheapshot at each other, if you don’t want me to point out the potential misleading part (that is assume that the implication wasn’t your intention to begin with) in your post, you shouldn’t post it in the first place.

Side-handle batons (sometimes referred to as T-batons or Nightsticks) are batons with a short side handle at a right angle to the shaft, about six inches from one end. The main shaft is typically 61 centimetres (24 in) in length. They are derived from the tonfa, an Okinawan kobudō weapon, and are used with a similar technique (although Tonfas are usually used in pairs, whereas side-handle batons are not). The best-known example is the Monadnock PR-24, which has become a genericized trademark within the law enforcement and security communities for this type of product.

I am fine with an added item named with any of those terms for police item spawns, though I would prefer nightstick personally. Tonfa can remain largely wooden, and found in dojo spawns and from crafting. Police nightsticks should be a harder material like reinforced plastic, uncraftable, and probably do a bit more damage.

Also, would it make sense for tonfa to spawn in pairs and make the item “a pair of tonfa” instead of “tonfa”, since that is normally how they are used?

I’m not a mind reader, I’m trying to take some vaguely-worded categories and translate them into actual item lists. It’s far more useful for the list to be broad than narrow, so if something reasonably fits into the category, I’m adding it. All we need is one more person to clarify that the didn’t mean watches to bring it under the line, and you might want to take this opportunity to edit your vote to be more precise.

Who’s that even aimed at?

The reason it’s not named that is because the more generic term is way too generic, as I’ve already pointed out. If you don’t recognize the term, either read the description or look it up.

[quote=“IcedPee, post:40, topic:6401”]

If you don’t want to get called out for “satirical one-liners”, you might not want to make them in the first place. It’s perfectly valid to call someone out for particular statements, why wouldn’t it be?

Add night stick. Remove watch from blacklist.

Feel free to vote in the voting thread: http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=6736.0 , but you can only vote for, not against.

Kevin, I think you’re misenterpreting my reasons for my suggestions: The issue with the Tonfa is that people can’t decide whether or not it should be included in the “foreign weapons” blacklist category, yes?
Well, most of this confusion appears to stem from the name: Tonfa. Katana, Wakizashi, Tonfa. They all sound vaguely foreign, and while we know the first two are very rarely used in Western countries and are (rightly) blacklisted, the latter HAS been extensively used, and is therefore not an exclusively ‘foreign’ weapon per say. Certainly it’s nowhere near as ludicrous to imagine a person finding and fighting with basically a forked hardwood stick than an authentic katana. So if the name was changed to ‘police baton’ as is the generally accepted term by Americans (such as the player character), it would appear to fit more.

As a side note: I don’t understand how the term “police baton” is any more general than, say, a “golf club”. I mean, with the latter we could be talking about anything from a 9-iron to a putter and I don’t see anybody that is concerned with refining the name (nor should they, that’s just silly). There are other examples of this in the game but I feel I’ve made my point.

That is not the issue at all. People said they wanted “Japanese weapons” on the blacklist. The Tonfa is a Japanese weapon, therefore it’s on the list. Izicata in particular strenuously objected to this, and attempted to make all kinds of ultimately irrelevant arguments about it not actually being a Japanese weapon. However he DID make a successful end-run around the whole process by contributing the “PR-24 tactical restraint system”, which can not by any stretch of the imagination be considered a “Japanese weapon”, therefore it’s now in the game, and not on the blacklist, and he’s presumably happy with himself.
I’m happy too, I’m not trying to piss in anyone’s cereal here, I set out some simple rules and I’m just trying to stick to them. Also I counter-contributed a feature that lets you activate it to extend it, it goes “snap!”, which makes me happy, and I’m sure it’ll make other people happy too. After you’re done “lawfully restraining” the zombie’s brains out of their skulls, you can activate it again to collapse it and make it fit in your pocket. I do NOT know how we’ve survived so long without this feature… oh wait, people are dying in droves, so I guess we aren’t :wink:

The difference between the two examples is that a 9-iron and a putter don’t differ by all that much combat-wise except for weight, so “golf club” is a perfectly acceptable designation for anything in that general family. Plus golf clubs are pretty universally terrible at beating people with.
With a “police baton” vs a “tonfa” on the other hand, one is a glorified stick (a very well-weighted one, but still essentially a stick), and the other is one of the finest close quarters bludgeoning weapons in existence, the difference is staggeringly massive, and one the game system cares about a great deal, so that’s a difference we want to capture. In particular it very much deserves rapid attack along with at least WBLOCK_2, in addition to being a very lightweight and therefore pretty fast weapon to start with, also quite a few martial arts use it extensively. A plain baton on the other hand doesn’t merit rapid attack, and it might not even merit WBOCK_1.

I know it’s been suggested, but I’d also like to put in a vote for breaking the mod down into a series of themed lists. I’d be happy to see sexual content removed, but pretty much everything else on the list I’m either neutral towards or would sorely miss. I wouldn’t be surprised if only being annoyed by certain classes of items and wanting to keep others is pretty universal.

Also, if bondage gear is blacklisted, will the related profession also be removed or just rendered broken?

it’s broken, the lost submissive just starts out mostly naked with this enabled.
I’ve already addressed splitting the blacklist previously.
Specifically, I don’t consider ‘adult content’ a sensical category, if you don’t like the extent of the blacklist, it is literally a matter of a minute or so to delete the entries you don’t want in there.

Watches/dive watches and all the watches without the fancy tag are not jewellery. When I said jewellery I explicitly stated brooches, pearl necklaces, earrings and everything with the fancy tag, useless by itself unless someone has the stylish perk.
Edit: forgot to post it in the vote thread also.