Is there / could there be a mod for constant increasing difficulty?

[kevin.granade]

Just a heads up, linking scaling to the player is mod territory, the plan for the main game is to have various monsters get stronger over time (zombies evolve, ants/triffids/fungi multiply, nether types might make strongholds), and possibly have some player-triggered events that make things harder somehow, but I’m fundamentally opposed to linking it to player progression directly.

[ianpwilliams]

OK, it’s good to hear that there are plans for making the late game harder and more challenging, be it via mods or in the main game (either is fine with me). I’ll probably not make it until late game anyway until several versions down the line!

Love this game though. As time goes on I get less interested in big budget games with great graphics but with a fixed storyline and game world (Fallout 4 will have to be an exception to the rule though), and much more interested in CDDA and other roguelikes, games with more replay value and imagination in them. Great work.

[Noctifer]

Just a heads up, linking scaling to the player is mod territory, the plan for the main game is to have various monsters get stronger over time (zombies evolve, ants/triffids/fungi multiply, nether types might make strongholds), and possibly have some player-triggered events that make things harder somehow, but I’m fundamentally opposed to linking it to player progression directly.

Fair enough. If its doable via LUA (like the statsthoughskills mod), then no source code messing around will be necessary.

[Valpo]

Scaling Enemies strength on player strength defeats the purpose of player progression. If the difficulty is to rise then it should be in a way independant from the player characters abillities.

Making a mod about this would be a waste of energie.

[Noctifer]

I mean more of it increasing over time but taking into account by how much to increase depending on the players strength, no dependent on it. If the player does not become stronger by the time the next upgrade comes around, too bad, it just go harder still.

[vache]

IMO the main source of increased difficulty should be the result of locations opening up that weren’t available (or at least weren’t reasonable to be expected to take on) when the player was lower skilled and geared. These locations should be REQUIRED to advance to certain gear, which might have to result in things being tweaked in terms of spawn locations (power armor, optical cloak, certain weapons).

[Valpo]

I mean more of it increasing over time but taking into account by how much to increase depending on the players strength, no dependent on it. If the player does not become stronger by the time the next upgrade comes around, too bad, it just go harder still.

Well taking player strength into account is scaling by player strength(care to explain the differens you see?). It needs to be divorced of player progress. A roguelike especialy is mostly unforgiving … just like life. Don t take that away. Well i won t opose a mod. I am just saying its not productive.

IMO the main source of increased difficulty should be the result of locations opening up that weren’t available (or at least weren’t reasonable to be expected to take on) when the player was lower skilled and geared. These locations should be REQUIRED to advance to certain gear, which might have to result in things being tweaked in terms of spawn locations (power armor, optical cloak, certain weapons).

That is a sensibel suggestion.

That and making the world come alive will create challenge.

If factions progress without players beeing near them then you ll soon have a world that has lots of unpleasant things fighting for dominance.

[Noctifer]

Let me explain, let say that every season spawn rate and evolution rate go up by 10x. If the player has not progresses in skill or stats then it only increases by 5x, if either a stat or skill is increase then it still goes up by 10x but if both a set skill and stat go up then it increase by 20x. Granted, many skills and stats would affect other fassets of game play.

[vache]

The problem is there are a ton of factors to take into account in regards to player strength. Players’ weapons, armor, stats, skills, bionics, mutations, followers, vehicles, and more all contribute to how “strong” a player is, but it is next to impossible to combine all of those factors into one convenient method for scaling difficulty.

[Valpo]

Let me explain, let say that every season spawn rate and evolution rate go up by 10x. If the player has not progresses in skill or stats then it only increases by 5x, if either a stat or skill is increase then it still goes up by 10x but if both a set skill and stat go up then it increase by 20x. Granted, many skills and stats would affect other fassets of game play.

Thats scaling on player stats.
Well at least its kinda less linear.

I still opose that idea.

[kevin.granade]

IMO the main source of increased difficulty should be the result of locations opening up that weren’t available (or at least weren’t reasonable to be expected to take on) when the player was lower skilled and geared. These locations should be REQUIRED to advance to certain gear, which might have to result in things being tweaked in terms of spawn locations (power armor, optical cloak, certain weapons).

Yes this too, the main challenge here is making them reasonably dangerous looking so that they aren’t just a newb trap.

[ianpwilliams]

I note that it is possible to change the spawn rate mid game in the options menu. Does anyone do this? I suppose you could up the spawn rate (maybe by 1 every 10 days or something) if you wanted a tougher challenge. Or if you found yourself with a nice comfy base which you could theoretically stay in for months, then maybe you could up the spawn rate to 50 for maybe a day, then bring it back down to 1.

Does anyone play with the spawn rate during games? And has anyone tried the “zombie hoarde” option, and if so, how is it?

[Random_dragon]

This gives me an idea. Stats Through Skills does demonstrate that LUA scripting can allow stats to be looked at, and allow things to be messed with in reaction to stat increases.

Can LUA scripting be used to edit a map’s settings?

[Valpo]

[quote=“vache, post:26, topic:10888”]IMO the main source of increased difficulty should be the result of locations opening up that weren’t available (or at least weren’t reasonable to be expected to take on) when the player was lower skilled and geared. These locations should be REQUIRED to advance to certain gear, which might have to result in things being tweaked in terms of spawn locations (power armor, optical cloak, certain weapons).

Yes this too, the main challenge here is making them reasonably dangerous looking so that they aren’t just a newb trap.[/quote]

I actually do enjoy reading post from antagonised players dieing on evil things… but i guess you might have a different angle.

[Random_dragon]

A true roguelike tradition. -w-

[DeveakLIVES]

Well I like the idea in the thread earlier about weather patterns. It fits the lore. The world is slowly decaying and thin points are opening up, allowing more of the “other” in. The problem I always have with the game difficulty is its either death by day 1 or a cakewalk after that. The game needs a slow increase of difficulty. You shouldn’t see hulks, shock brutes or any super advanced zombie on day 1. It should either be only in rare areas where it makes sense (lab) or super rare in a city. Have it set by season length. Every season it gets worse, the weather gets erratic, the zombies mutate more. In the beginning it might just be common undead, 4 years down the line you have the full works of zombie types plus acid rain, radiation storms, dust storms, snow storms, crazed raiders etc. A gradual decline into complete chaos. A good mechanic would be to mix both static spawning and dynamic down the line. Have the dynamic slowly increase in rate over the years. It may only spawn a few infected common zombies the first entire season but as you go so does the spawn rate and types and numbers. The game needs basically a roller coaster of difficulty. Multi level, multi threat environment that gets worse and worse as you go. The only exception is high end loot areas. They should have that horrible stuff from the get go to make you earn it. That way it will keep you out at the start and it keeps with the lore since most of its messed up military/science stuff. A running kill count should also help in the math of the spawn system. That way it feels like you make some dent or progress into the mobs in the area. To the point where if say i kill 300-400 in a day, that area slows down in spawning a lot so it feels like I thinned them out. A week later it may go up. Thoughts?

[Litppunk]

The only problem I see with the difficulty is that if you find a RV you basically skip all the early game difficulty requiring you to scavenge desperately for food AND equipment fast enough to also have time to train on zombies to keep them from outpacing your progression. Without RV it tends to be a struggle, with you are essentially set for immortality (long as you don’t do something stupid)

Though that is a bit of a stretch of a grievance as the game basically revolves around don’t do anything stupid/ get sudden rash of bad luck at terrible timing.

[RipRoarinBoogerPenis]

Would we be able to have zombies spawning based on noise made (like dynamic spawn) while still having static spawn?

[Umbral_Reaver]

Apologies if this has already been said (I am new and discovered Cataclysm only this week).

What about distance-based density and/or evolution? The towns around your spawn are relatively easy, but as you move outward you encounter greater dangers.

[Litppunk]

The solutions to multiple spawns (multiple characters) in same world, or even sequential spawns would be interesting to say the least. Though the map of threat density might look pretty cool.