Is fighting really necessary? (rant)

Is fighting really necessary? This question is bothering me a lot. After a few years of playing Cataclysm, I think that the most important advice for players is: do not lose control. If players lose control, they are likely to make a very stupid mistake that will be fatal for them.

No plan survives contact with the enemy. This is an old truth. This truth is strictly connected with the randomness of Cataclysm. Players can plan every detail of their night raid but it does not matter. A random zombie may bash a random car and activate an alarm. Now, players are trapped in a city. A random wolfpack may lead a random deer into a random minefield. A horde go to the noise of explosion. Players are trapped in a city. They lost control. They are likely to make stupid mistakes and die.

Now, they are figthing with zombies and other monsters. There are many elements of fighing: stamina, wounds, state of weapons and clothes, ammo, armor, skills. Things can go wrong. Fighting ALWAYS leads to losing control. Players never know if a random brute or hulk will surprise them when they are reloading their rifle or shotgun. Shady zombies may ambush players and kill them. Shoggoth may be deadly too. In reality, players do not have any control since they start fighting in close-quarters. It is like gambling. They are lucky or not. They are alive or dead.

I am writing about this because of the relationship between profit and risk. Players are able to collect the same items and learn the same skills without fighting at all. The only difference is the amount of time. Collecting items and learning skills without fighting is much slower, although much safer. Players do not need to raid cities at all. It is possible to collect the most essential tools by scavenging cars, single buildings, camps. Moreover, players can craft and trade items.

If it comes to hunting, players do not have to hunt a bear, moose, wolf etc. They can eat a racoon, squirrel, fish, birds etc. Killing them is so easy that it should not be called ‘fighting’. There is no risk in it

I know that players can use very strong armor that make them invincible. In my opinion, playing as an invincible god of apocalypse is more boring that playing without fighting intentionally.

My characters have very low skills in melee and ranged weapons exept for throwing. Monsters evolve and I do not. Sometimes I have to fight for survival. Those are very tense and emotional moments because fighting is not a routine for me


I wouldn’t say it’s necessary, but as you point out you can’t plan for every eventuality and at some point you will probably have to fight. By being unable to do so effectively you virtually guarantee a messy death.

Additionally there’s plenty of uncraftable items that can only really be acquired by engaging in some combat. Labs tend to be too tightly packed to effectively sneak through after all.

Not directed specifically at you or anything like that, but I’d rather advance faster than the enemy and lay waste to them long before my own death is even a concept than to be a pacifistic little weakling that runs away and begs for another day living instead of fighting for it and ensuring that they always come out on top. Sure running away may make you live another day if you’re weak, but it’s not satisfying at all.

The only time I consider running away is when I KNOW I won’t make it out of a situation alive, and when I do it feels like a disgrace which must be amended as soon as possible. It forces improvement, it forces winning, and thus it forces survival. On default settings it’s more or less impossible to avoid fighting and you will face large groups at some point, so why not embrace it and be at least mildly good at it?

And I tend to disagree with a plan falling apart once enemy contact is a factor. The problem with plans that even allowed a statement like that to exist is that they’re often too complicated. Simple plans allow for a lot of room to adapt and still allows you to stick within the parameters of your plan. Plus it doesn’t hurt to be paranoid. Paranoia exists for a reason, it keeps you alive and helps you prepare correctly. Keep it simple, overprepare, and nothing goes particularly wrong or unexpected.


To the op
How is that any different than the countless variables that aren’t considered when doing anything in life?

That’s exactly the way it should be, no one person is in control, that’s what makes the game exciting! At least for me. The very zest of life itself is the fact that we can be surprised, for good or bad. Lol


Remember, it is not ‘dying’ it is ‘learning how to do better next time’!

-CDDA wiki
Every time i die, be it randomly events or my dumb decisions, i remember this…
Is a good hint if you ask me,

Why fight?

Death is inevitable.

Give in and just let it happen.

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Control is a fallacy. To control completely is to get exactly what you want, and absolutely nothing else. To control even a little less than absolute is to be taken by surprise. A surprise which will be proportionally as terrible as how much you control.

Give me nothing but a rudder and I shall navigate the raging seas with maddening glee. I will laugh as the sea roars and cry as it wallows. I will gather around me the parts of other craft be they smashed failures or grand successes. Ideas, material and fellow drifters alike shall be roped in until they or the sea separate us once more. Loss is meaningless for it means only that I had, and that I now have the chance and opportunity to sail forward with greater knowledge. From which to build upon once more my drifting vessel for experience is not a ship which sails in the calmest waters.
-Me, 11/25/2019
unlike this pathetic copy pasta-VVVVV :stuck_out_tongue:


To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humor is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer’s head. There’s also Rick’s nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation - his personal philosophy draws heavily fromNarodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realize that they’re not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Rick and Morty truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn’t appreciate, for instance, the humour in Rick’s existencial catchphrase “Wubba Lubba Dub Dub,” which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev’s Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I’m smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Dan Harmon’s genius unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools… how I pity them. :joy: And yes by the way, I DO have a Rick and Morty tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It’s for the ladies’ eyes only- And even they have to demonstrate that they’re within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.


My definition of having control has nothing to do with getting exactly what we want, and absolutely nothing else. Let me give you an example. My current character is a nomad (as each character since 2018) with a horse. The only thing that I need is a given amount of food and drinks. I have control due to the fact that I eat the same amount of food every day. I call this ‘control’ because it is not chaotic or random. It does not mean that I cannot be surprised. My daily amount of food comes from fishing and foraging. I do not know if I will catch any fish but it does not matter. It does not matter because I have control. I know that fishing will take only an hour of my daily schedule. I know that I will not die of starvation because I always have a given amount of food with me that I restock every day. I may be surprised and not being able to restock food but it does not matter since my supplies will last for a week. This is my definition of control. Having control means minimisig chaos and risk. It means that we stay calm and we do what we want. I have a specific daily schedule. I eat during specific hours, I process wood during specific hours, I fish during specific hours, I cook during specific hours etc. This is why I have control. I know how much time it takes to accomplish a given task. I am calm because I know that I will be able to prepare my overnight camp. If something surprises me and my daily schedule is ruined, I do not ‘go with the flow’. It does not matter if someday I will not be able to process wood. Eating a cold supper and sleeping without a campfire will not kill me. Another thing: I have only 28 wooden bodkin arrows and it is enough because I have them in case of being unable to fish and forage for a very long time. This is my definition of control. I minimise chaos and risk.

And what about fighting intentionally? We do not know how much time it will take to clean a given city or to kill a given horde. We do not know how much ammo it will take. We do not know if we will get more ammo that we used. We do not know if we will be injured, and if so, how badly. We do not know if a loot will be worth the effort.
Melee is chaotic and risky. Using firearms is connected with losing a lot of ammo. It is not ‘a control’ from my definition

So you choose less than absolute, as much as you possibly can control which while lower in risk now, leaves you vulnerable later when you have less resources and skills to use when the horde is stronger. You are only trying to gain control over the mindless fish and animals, in a video game so your backfire when you lose control is much less severe.

It is also very boring and formulaic, lacking fun deaths and difficult challenges to overcome. I find the most enjoyment in coming up with a strategy, and refining it through multiple play through until I’ve got it down, or find it no longer interesting, then trying a different strategy

Much as is my take on life, though with only one life to try and fail at. I measure success not in preventing variables, but in allowing them and using the peaks to take me higher. All while fording the lows as best I can, and helping others where I am capable through their own lows.

Their is nothing wrong with risk management, but when risk management is more important than progress, then nothing is accomplished as evidenced by your low event plays.

You learn very little lore, what the creatures are capable of, the fun little setups that devs have put in, etc…

My love for Cataclysm started many years ago. I am familiar with almost any creature that exists in this lore. I loved to create my own scenarios: worlds with extreme cold, extreme heat, deserts without any water where you die without a vehicle, worlds without cities, worlds full of zombies (spawn rate 50), worlds without any monsters exept for extremelly fast, agile, and deadly Hunters (a custom monster). I played without a map. I had to create my own paper maps. I had characters that were based on melee, firearms, static bases, farming, faction camps, gathering NPCs army, clearing cities and killing hordes. I remember times when a dynamic spawn was the thing. I remember times when even running was not possible. I am aware of lore and many sweet features added by Kevin and other developers. My current character is a tribute to person who added rideable horses. I am amazed by the fact that this quite fresh and extremelly important feature did not have a huge influence on this forum.
BTW- having a character that has his own faction camp, 20+ NPCs army, farms, forge, collection of vehicles, enormous stock of guns, melee weapons, food etc, and being killed by a random chicken walker is not fun at all. It has not many room for changing and refining our strategy. I just died in the blink of an eye

so minimized risk play-through is another strategy in the mix not a permanent attempt to…not really play the game. Cool.

It’s just a question of what different people find fun I guess. Fighting isn’t really necessary if all you are trying to do is survive, all you really need is a vehicle (or a horse) and to keep moving or set up some underground base with enough crops growing to keep you fed. But when does that sort of game end? what are your goals with such a playthrough? to survive as long as possible? to prove a point?

It’s not really like surviving for the sake of surviving is all that difficult, it’s even easier if you do take some risks in the early/mid game since you tend to be better equipped and geared to deal with anything unexpected. It’s one of the reasons I tend to get bored with characters when I reach the “endgame” and why I tend to set my own goals for my survivors, you just run out of things to do but wander around looking for trouble otherwise.

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I can’t tell what is pasta and what isnt anymore.


I COULD just dance around the zombies instead of clearing them out. But that’s soooo much work.

Which one, dancing or clearing?

the paper map thing seems really fun