Advice for Mixing Things Up

So I got into Cataclysm a few months ago. Naturally, I was pretty terrible at the game. But after a bit I found a progression that tended to work however I set my game up. It was basically this:

Pre-Car: Getting a car working or raiding a school/mansion for books. Add bed to car. Live in car from now on.

Car (reading): Search for school or mansion to raid for books (if not done already). Find something with Kevlar from all the wreckage on the map. Get 6 Tailoring + 6 Fabrication.

Car (crafting): Make light survivor suit, boots, gloves and mask; survivor hood; survivor duster; survivor runner pack and survivor belt. Make a welding rig and put it on car. Cover car in solar panels from first solar car found. Move to RV or similar if one turns up on the road. This is around day 10, usually, and it’s the point that everything stops being threatening if I’m not stupid.

Labs: Use books to get 8+ on all skills I need. Raid labs for quantum panels, nukes, fusion blasters, guns, CBMs and manuals. Install all the CBMs. Get a torsion ratchet, get unified power system, convert light amp mp3 to UPS to have both forever. Pick a mutation tree and fill it - usually one of the melee animals.

Base: Clear a prison or other relatively fortified place. Use Q panels to set up power. Promise myself I’ll build furniture and individual crafting rooms. End up piling shit by category. Set up a forge and make a new sword. Base is token and functionally inferior to car. But NPCs can be left here without me feeling terrible.

Fuckaround: Clear cities by the sword, do mines, do temples, find nothing that threatens to overwhelm repair nanobots, pain dulling and survivor firesuit+boots (for the acid) barring things with big guns or bombs. Maybe try power armor if I find any. Get bored of playing a god and start over.

I always use melee. I always end up following these steps. I have my spawns at 1.5, cities of size 10, wander spawns and static spawns.

I’ve been trying to disrupt a couple habits of play but have been having issues with each, I’d like to know if you guys and gals have a different schemata to mine and how you might suggest disrupting these habits:

  1. City avoidance. Cities are fuckin’ packed early on if I put wander spawns on, even if I tone down my spawn value. Labs are a pushover even for starter characters as are mansions. Both have all the weapons and tools I need so I never go near the cities early. I like wander spawns because it validates securing any base I build - there’s a chance the defences will be tested - but all the advice on handling them in cities early game is to do what I’ve been doing; head off elsewhere. I did have a game where I lived in the subways and did night raids but getting that going isn’t something I think I could expect to manage regularly.

How might I play my early game in or near cities without relying on luck or a beefed up starter character? Do you have advice for settings that balance threat with achieve-ability when it comes to early game city engagement? Has my learning to live in the pushover woods simply prevented me from learning an effective method to dealing with cities on my settings?

  1. Light armor melee building. I keep trying to make bows work. Really. But even when I start with bow hunter, some points in bows and ranged and manage to get an arrow recipe book it seems like melee has both more staying bower and less timesinking into retrieving and crafting arrows. I’ve read a guide on archery, though it seemed to recommend a day of practice firing which seems super tedious. In melee I find a sword or a machete or a bat or whatever and start swinging at basic zeds. My skills seem to scale with my character’s place on my progression path. Ultimately, I can never seem to find the advantage bows have over melee. I mean, a lone zombie I can kit and never get hit (though the same can be said for spears) but whenever I have to deal with a few it seems like melee is more efficient; find a choke and start swinging.

How do I get into ranged use without excessive grinding? How do you do it? I’m also interested in what sort of equipment you’d shoot for armor and weapon-wise with a bow user.

Also, also. Is a heavy armor melee user a thing? The dodge malus from torso encumberance seems an okay tradeoff except that the survivor armor loadout I listed further up seems to have enough armor to soak everything but lots of bullets or brute and up hits. Sometimes I do the bear or cattle mutation and use XL gear when I go mad and try to live with the tedium of carless travel but that’s more of a necessity corner case. Do you do melee different to me? What does your melee loadout look like?

  1. Book dependency. I loathe grinding. I like exploring, planning a raid and dealing with threats. I’ve started taking fast reader and at least 14 INT on every character because I can gather books, food and water by doing the things I like. I can then turn all those things into skills. Lately I’ve been trying to ‘practice’ stuff to get skills up. I actually found making way too many bandanas, briefs and leg warmers not so different from book use. I found a similar thing with using soldering irons on things. I kinda like needing to hunt for specific tools to upskill early on. That’s felt less grindy and more explorey. But after maybe the 3rd rank in a skill it really does become a grind. Uninstalling and reinstalling parts, for example. Once I have my tools it’s just a grind.

Is that just a fact of higher skill progression? How do you reach the highest skills?

I think those are my major points. I’m really interested in how you like to play and build your characters. If you’ve taken the time to read all of this; thanks a bunch.

OH! Also, I actually still have no idea what a very high end weapon looks like. What are your preferred high end weapons? I usually use a machete, then whichever sword seems to have the best balance of damage and swing speed.

  1. Cities:
    Fire and noise are your friends. Well, they aren’t, until you make them so.

Make sound so zombies go somewhere, travel the long way around the mob, loot the now empty-ish area, try not to make noise and attract enemies.
Or make noise, set place on fire, keep off foes until there’s a nice fire going, kill witnesses and flee without being spotted, hide nearby. Zombies come for noise, zombies burn.

  1. Armor and Melee:
    Heavier armor kills your dodge, you can make up for that with, well, armor, as well as blocking (weapons with the property, or armor parts with the Block While Worn property). The advantage is that you can afford to have more carrying capacity, because the encumbrance from that is less of an issue. It also works with other things that kill your dodge, like skates.

Both archery and throwing work, for the former, you want 10-ish STR and PER & DEX that don’t suck, for the later you want a bit more strength above that. Bows, you want to work your way to the heavy arrows and the longbow, throwing, wooden javelins are a very good early solution. They’re less killy than melee, but they aren’t without advantages:
a) dealing with enemies you don’t want near or before they do something you don’t want (shockers, boomers, acid, screamers…)
b) doing so silently
c) doesn’t care about torso encumbrance, which means more loot
d) less need to grind for armor (which you’re invariably spending on the ammo)
e) set things on fire at a safe distance. Fire Is Fun.

Skilling speed depends on hitting things, the longer range the better, for this, you want something big, dumb and slow. Lure it to a place with obstacles so it’s slowed down more, and just kite in a circle. Alternatively, dance for a turret until it runs out of ammo, and ineffectively hit it from maximum range.

Throwing has the flaw that you don’t have a way for dealing with armor, well, other than fire.

Other options are unarmed (can be hilariously deadly), spears (good kiting, better if you nab a bicycle), and slings (cheapo ammo and weapon).

  1. Grinding: When I can’t do books, I tend to prefer recipes that I can craft/uncraft for no material loss. So long as you’re doing something of your latest skill level, crafting seems faster than most other methods of skill grinding.

  2. End weapons:
    Melee-wise, you want something fast that works with a martial art to improve the damage, extra points if you can diamond-coat and it gets vorpal.
    So that means punch daggers or monoblade CBM for most martial arts, or the stuff on the niten, eskrima and fencing weapon lists.

To get highest skill levels:
For crafting and knowledge skills, by reading, usually. Might get you to 8, might get up to 10.
For combat skills, by hands-on experience.

Not sure what to suggest about archery. You might get lucky and find a good bow at a sporting goods store. That should give a nice headstart. Unforch, you need some archery to craft the good arrows… Prefer fighting while your Focus is high, and hit targets at longer ranges, as that gives you more XP.

OH. Did you know that you can “turn off” skill progression? Do that for Driving, after reaching maybe 5. Driving eats up your Focus, which in turn eats up your skill progression speed. Use TAB in the character sheet, browse to Driving and hit Enter. You can turn it back on the same way.

It sounds like you’ve experienced the majority of the game, and you have found your patterns, and you still want more, but you don’t know exactly what that is. This is the midlife crisis of a game.

Recent experimentals added zombie health and zombie speed settings (0-100%) to world generation. Tweaking those might be your way of adjusting a city start to something suitably challenging.

Traditionally cities are raided during night. Use flashlight sparingly. Flash it for a turn, see what you can see, turn it off, and re-evaluate your path. You could make prior raid plans, such as “I’m going to raid those three gun stores tonight, and be back before sunrise”.

At daytime, you could linger at the edge of the city, and raid individual buildings at the edge. That’s way safer than just heading into the city.

Always try to use any opportunistic situations, such as monsters swarming turrets or cockroaches, or monsters being distracted by a running car engine. They provide a modest distraction while you get a chance to start clearing the entire block, as opposed to just taking on all the monsters at once. Or you could lob a grenade or something at the grouped monsters.

At one point when I had a nice sturdy vehicle, I used to snatch and grab shocker brutes while driving through zombie-infested cities. But that was many versions ago. I used to hit them to death with the car, then stop, toss the body in the vehicle, and drive away ASAP. Butchering shocker brutes yields some very good CBMs.

Try crafting an army of manhacks (5-20). They’re great for taking down swarms of zombie children (at schools), which are otherwise bit hard to hit. Killing them with manhacks doesn’t give negative morale either. Of course NPCs can do that as well. Manhacks are decent against spiders too if they’re being too hard to hit.

Maybe set up a base in an ice lab. Their subzero temps (celsius) preserve any food forever.

I remember getting frustrated about reading as well. At one point I just debugged/cheated the points that I’d get from the book anyway. Reading also goes faster if you’re at a quieter location (less monster/animal traffic). Restarting the game can help performance as well.

Have you tried taking on the Doom aspects of PK mod?

My advice for mixing things up would probably be to role-play as a character.
Not everybody has fun with this, but giving myself priorities that are not “become a bionic mutant god ASAP” helps me enjoy the game a lot more.

Make a world with hordes on and give yourself 15 days to build up defenses in the bunker you spawn in, and loot weapons and prepare. At the morning of the fifth day, debug yourself anything that makes noise, and attract all the hordes to the base. Survive!

[quote=“Aabbcc, post:2, topic:13130”]1. Cities:
Fire and noise are your friends. Well, they aren’t, until you make them so.

…[/quote]

Thanks for all of your advice; it was very informative. I’ve never really used fire except with fungaloids but I’m definitely gonna try fire and noise in cities and, you know, lots more fire generally speaking. You’ve also convinced me of the viability of alternative combat types.

[quote=“BeerBeer, post:3, topic:13130”]…

Traditionally cities are raided during night. Use flashlight sparingly. Flash it for a turn, see what you can see, turn it off, and re-evaluate your path. You could make prior raid plans, such as “I’m going to raid those three gun stores tonight, and be back before sunrise”.

I remember getting frustrated about reading as well. At one point I just debugged/cheated the points that I’d get from the book anyway. Reading also goes faster if you’re at a quieter location (less monster/animal traffic). Restarting the game can help performance as well.[/quote]

I’ve never tried flashlighting like that, but I definitely will. As for reading, I don’t dislike it so much as I wonder if it has high end alternatives. It’s sounding like the alternatives tend to be crating based for noncombat skills.

I haven’t. I tried installing the PK mod but couldn’t find a way to make it compatible with a tileset and the clashing got me to drop it. But I might revisit it and just use my imagination better, it sounds good.

[quote=“Weyrling, post:5, topic:13130”]My advice for mixing things up would probably be to role-play as a character.
Not everybody has fun with this, but giving myself priorities that are not “become a bionic mutant god ASAP” helps me enjoy the game a lot more.[/quote]

I do try to roleplay characters with varying degrees of seriousness. One run I’ll play an ex lawyer trying to use their people skills to build a community to keep armed people between them and the dead, the next I’ll play a mobster who refuses to not wear a suit in the cataclysm. But ultimately the survival pressures seem to push towards following my steps for most characters - sure, they might never replace their flesh with bionic alloys because they’re big on their humanity - but a torsion ratchet, power system and nanites never seem too invasive to me. I also struggle to stay immersed in a character when every NPC seems to be dropping as many swear words as possible and every other NPC has a crazy stupid like name. Like only teenagers survived the cataclysm and they’ve adopted names they think are sweet.

I’ll give this a go, it sounds like fun. An issue I always had with securing places (and boy do I love securing places) is that my defences never get tested. Except one time when an NPC quest spawned a Jabberwocky which broke through the motel backwall and ate Mrs 4 Strength Meow.

Thanks all of you for your responses, some really great stuff here.

Personally i enjoy playing with endless seasons.

Endless winter ensures that food never spoils, but you’re reduced to scavenging existing food and hunting because nothing will grow. You are also forced to bundle up which means more encumberance which makes prolonged melee more dangerous.

Endless summer generally has bountiful food, if you can preserve it. That and the speed penalties from being hot really make you weigh the value of heavy armor.

Of course as the game goes on it naturally becomes easier but I find those additions tend to increase the challenge of the early-mid game.