i was just trying to explain to mikt4743 xD
I think he was confused by kevin.granade’s statement, which sounds like the game is meant to forcefully slow down the player if their speed is high enough to counteract their stamina regen. Which would end up making speed mutations not affect your movement speed.
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I think Kevin and Ragno meant what they said, and are correct. “Walking” in this case meaning the baseline a person IRL would wish to move comfortably. Not a gamey sort of “walking=movespeed1 and running=movespeed2” sort of a way, which I think Mikt4743 is believing.
If you want to consume stamina to move faster, then just run, right? Maybe there should be stamina increasing mutations, or even a walk -> jog -> run sort of thing, idk. But what Kevin and Ragno are saying makes sense.
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every action has a stamina cost
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more speed means more actions per turn, but rate of stamina regen stays the same
So at very high speeds, you can make more actions per turn than your stam regen, which is not improved, can keep up with.
Since ‘walking’ is also an action that has a stam cost, at very high speeds you can become exhausted by simply walking.
So you either need to boost stam regen, or get stam cost discounts at higher speeds, if you don’t want to be Usain Bolt at everything.
Exactly, but everyone has a varying concept of ‘comfortably’ due to differences in physique and health. Speed as a stat tries to put those differences in a plain number, as a result higher speed lets you take more actions per turn, such as walking from point A to B in less time.
But you’re still ‘walking’, meaning a ‘comfortable pace’ (in relation to your physique) and thus walking should never make one suffer from a constant stamina loss (assuming mouth encumbrance is within reason and nothing totally unrelated to speed is messing with your stamina).
At the same time, hard capping the benefits that speed has on your movement for the sake of not having it drain too much stamina is just not a very intuitive mechanic and also punishes players with ‘excessive’ speed mutations (which often come at a cost to begin with, like the severely crippling Hollow Bones).
Also see Hdstaskr’s post above for a brief summation of the issue.
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It’s technically true.
It seems that the unintended consquence is that, you can’t ‘walk comfortably’ at higher speeds than default 100.
You’re technically at ‘powerwalk’ when ‘walking’ at speeds over 100. Stam drains slightly faster as you can take more ‘walk’ actions/turn, but your stam regen/turn stays the same.
High speeds gets odder on autoactions like dissecting. It’ll repeat ‘dissect’ actions until all your stam is low, then it’ll autorest.
With increased actions/turn and unchanged stam regen/turn, on autoactions you’ll come out of dissections with low stam, but the dissection autoaction will take less seconds of time.
Speed as a stat has nothing to do with comfortable walking speed. Speed represents your capability for doing things faster, but it doesn’t change how much work you’re doing, so it doesn’t change stamina expenditure.
Correct, but unless some effect has reduced your stamina consumption rate for walking (it hasn’t) or increased your stamina recovery rate (it hasn’t) then that means walking speed is limited.
Movement speed isn’t capped, just walking speed. As someone already pointed out, if you want to move faster, run.
You keep saying this, but it’s wrong. This outcome is completely intentional.
I’m willing to accept the argument that it’s done for balancing purposes but from a purely logical and realistic point of view, what you’re saying makes no sense to me.
There’s a certain maximum limit to the speed at which a person can do something, be it taking apart an engine, butchering an animal or running, but most importantly it varies greatly from person to person. What determines the utmost speed at which a person can perform these tasks? In short, experience, muscle memory and physique.
There’s a natural limit to your capabilities which you can’t push beyond no matter the effort without first improving yourself in some of the areas affecting it, such as your physique or muscle memory. Even if I’d want to sprint 30 miles per hour at the cost of being completely fatigued after 10 steps, that’s not within the realms of possibility.
However as my body improves through training (or mutations) that “maximum effort speed” improves.
At first I felt like dying if I ran at 10mp/h for 20 minutes. After a while I could run at 12mp/h for 20 minutes before feeling like I was dying. Then 14 and before long, 16mp/h for 20 minutes. Now at this point, were I to go back down to 12mp/h and run for 20 minutes, I’d be left with much more energy than when 12mp/h was me pushing it to the limits.
My example above is just as applicable to ‘power walking’ as it is to running.
The problem I see is that in-game you can’t fine tune the amount of effort put into movement, either you’re sprinting with all your might or you’re taking a casual stroll. With mechanics being what they are, ‘walking’ should be the fastest you can walk for extended periods (i.e no stamina drain) and as your physique and true top speed in sprints improves, so does your maximum walking speed.
Anecdotal evidence: I can walk way longer and faster than the large majority of 80 year old women.
But in game terms I’d only be able to walk faster, at a certain point I’m out of stamina and have to rest. Once I’m fully recovered they’ve already reached me with full stamina intact.
Honestly it might be easier to balance the speed stat if it didn’t affect movement at all and the game solely relied on the ‘movement cost’ stat to increase and decrease it. For the sake of movement they are the exact same thing but in reverse, it’s superfluous.
Yes it’s very likely we’re going to eliminate the speed stat entirely at some point in favor of directly discounting move costs, but that’s irrelevant for the discussion at hand, because whether you have more move points per turn or spend fewer move points per action, being able to do something faster does not imply that you can do it more efficiently.
I’m addressing that in my post from the first quote (in a somewhat TL;DR manner) and why I don’t necessarily agree.
Simply put, if my physique is improved, physical activities are less exhausting than before. I can then choose to expend as much energy as I did with my poorer physique to achieve better performance.
I’m interpreting the ‘speed’ stat as a physical measurement, not a mental willpower-esque stat. So if it’s meant to be the latter I can agree that simply willing to push oneself further does not equal greater stamina or efficiency.
and be moving as fast as walk in 20 turns due to stamina slowdowns? no thanks