I want the time back

[Zilenan91]

I think the first game I ever played was Max Payne 1 and I remember that shit looking so good back in the day

[pisskop]

Thats not so bad
There was a time when goldeneye looked good

^^ that only looks so good because there is a distinct lack of models in that shot.

[Lharson_Smith]

Figuring out how to play is the best part of any game. I loved figuring out cataclysm

[Litppunk]

Yea, watching /wiking more than just enough to understand the type of game and whether you would likr to play it or not is enjoyment killing spoiler.

[Arek_PL]

cata dda is probaly easiest roguelike what i played, easy intuitive controls, a lot of error forgiving, not complicated combat, readable ui,i learned how to play cata dda in something about 1 hour

and im not roguelike veteran, im casual player who just can see and enjoy game without 8k textures and hi-res 3D models

yes, you can find easier roguelikes but they are less forgiving if player make small error

and df? its more about hard ui where creating a game have learing curve

[jcd]

[quote=“Arek_PL, post:25, topic:12588”]cata dda is probaly easiest roguelike what i played, easy intuitive controls, a lot of error forgiving, not complicated combat, readable ui,i learned how to play cata dda in something about 1 hour

and im not roguelike veteran, im casual player who just can see and enjoy game without 8k textures and hi-res 3D models

yes, you can find easier roguelikes but they are less forgiving if player make small error[/quote]

exactly my feelings

…Even if the OP is obvtroll.

[Pthalocy]

I don’t think there is much else to be gained here. We’re either defending a game we already love on our own turf, or judging whoever the OP is.

Let’s move along.

[Litppunk]

but what if OP comes back and has something interesting to say? Or… is just less trolly, or a better troll.

[Pandromidal]

I’m so used to the cdda controls at this point it’s like being on a different planet from OP. I’ve always liked keyboarding though. I will say when I was first getting into the game it took quite a bit of time to get used to the controls. If cdda had a mouse friendly version it could significantly decease the learning curve for new players. What I mean by that is following conventional UI paradigms, like clicking buttons and menus with a mouse, being able to pan and zoom with a mouse, etc. Not very rougelike I know, but your average joe will never play cdda without it. That said I am not very concerned about what the average joe wants, and I’m going to continue to use the keyboard anyway.

[pisskop]

Its hard and akward to get into any game with numerous shortcuts. even things like realtime strat games can be hard to do right.

try playing AoE or Starcraft without keyboard shrotcuts. or try immediately using them all to their fullest.

[flergh_666]

I have to say I’m impressed. Despite my negative tone in this post, a lot of y’all responded with commiseration & genuine empathy, suggesting alternatives etc. Even the less patient asshole replies, well-merited considering my calculated choice of this forum as venue for venting my childish tantrum, at least demonstrated a redeeming quality of wit. Right on.
Yeah I was really annoyed when I wrote that…started w/ a vague intent to have my grievance with a game that’s pissing me off heard by someone associated with its development for once (as opposed to just yelling & cursing at the screen).
Anyway, I realized later that many games that ended up having a profound impact on me involved similar frustration - that’s cause the concepts are new. One of y’all said, “Any game worth playing is gonna have a learning curve”, unless I just came up with that. IDK
I’m sure most of y’all are way smarter than me - I can’t program shit. I read books on it b/c it’s fascinating but it doesn’t sink in. And my use of the term “roguelike enthusiast” in describing myself might be over-generous, considering I only discovered them about a year ago & have yet to win one…
Nevertheless, to those concerned with such things, what frustrated me into that flurry of typing other day was:

1.) When I said I watched YouTube videos, I didn’t mean “in preparation”. I mean after launching the .exe, repeated navigation through the UI menu yielded a seemingly endless array of mods, options, technical OCD micromanagement but my god could not figure out how to launch a basic vanilla CDDA game. If there is such a thing. Watched tutorials, yes, on HOW TO START A GAME - still not clear, know there’s a “Play Right Now” item. Maybe that’s how I got going finally.
2.) A few seconds in, using the “Look Around” keys I lost sight of my character. Couldn’t find him again. Scrolled back & forth for 20 minutes. I even resorted to reading the manual, yes it came to that - but the key it said to use failed to reunite us. Poor little guy, he’s probably still out there. Waiting for me…Yes I actually had to just give up/start over.
3.) What finally did it was finding a bike & attempting to drive. This is of course just my opinion. While I applaud whatever programmer’s intimate acquaintance with physics & inertia & all their hard work here, is it really necessary to make the vehicles conform perfectly with strict adherence to real bicycle mechanics? It’s a roguelike, let me just get in & push a direction key - I’m here in an escapist capacity - don’t make me work! I don’t know, this may be everyone else’s favorite damn feature.
Anyway, I have to go.

Talk to y’all later. My bad about that first post

[StopSignal]

Wow, really thought you were some kind of troll. My bad then. Let me reply some of your stuffs.

[quote=“flergh_666, post:31, topic:12588”]1.) When I said I watched YouTube videos, I didn’t mean “in preparation”. I mean after launching the .exe, repeated navigation through the UI menu yielded a seemingly endless array of mods, options, technical OCD micromanagement but my god could not figure out how to launch a basic vanilla CDDA game. If there is such a thing. Watched tutorials, yes, on HOW TO START A GAME - still not clear, know there’s a “Play Right Now” item. Maybe that’s how I got going finally.
2.) A few seconds in, using the “Look Around” keys I lost sight of my character. Couldn’t find him again. Scrolled back & forth for 20 minutes. I even resorted to reading the manual, yes it came to that - but the key it said to use failed to reunite us. Poor little guy, he’s probably still out there. Waiting for me…Yes I actually had to just give up/start over.
3.) What finally did it was finding a bike & attempting to drive. This is of course just my opinion. While I applaud whatever programmer’s intimate acquaintance with physics & inertia & all their hard work here, is it really necessary to make the vehicles conform perfectly with strict adherence to real bicycle mechanics? It’s a roguelike, let me just get in & push a direction key - I’m here in an escapist capacity - don’t make me work! I don’t know, this may be everyone else’s favorite damn feature.
Anyway, I have to go.

Talk to y’all later. My bad about that first post[/quote]

1- All that micromanagement you see is really a problem, though the game got so big i have no idea how it could be fixed. We really need more tutorials here in the forums. The world part being the most confusing for a new player (try to go as default as possible for now), but i guess you didn’t have problems with the character creation, if you ever could get there anyways. In any case, it should be pretty straightforward! Except the point system for creation, i still have no idea how the new one works. Try to use the “single pool” one in the first screen of the character creation if it gives you too much trouble.

2- Were you looking with the x key? The “move view” keys are quite weird, they move your viewport around, which is useless having the x key!
If you were using X, and you had lost yourself, you simply press escape and it should give your sight right back of your little survivor.

3- Driving is, well, quite weird to start. But they all do work the same if i recall correctly, it’s basically putting North to accelerate, and South to decelerate, and then the South and West keys to steer. At least that was the last time i have driven something in the game!

And well, considering you apologized in a good manner, everything’s alright. Hope you stay and try to get better at the game! Just a secret, i suck really bad at it too!

[Litppunk]

^ double what StopSignal said

honestly I think I play more for the forums than the game at this point, and just play to try and remain near enough a level of knowing the current changes to be able to still contribute.

first week or so of play ?>1 and ?>2 are your best friends. Even now months later I still end up using it pretty regularly, I just usually know what Im looking for now.

[StopSignal]

Assuming you’re not just here to whine, I’d suggest you go back and download base 0.C or one of the builds up to about 230something. The game was a lot more about just having fun and fucking around then than it is now, and I personally prefer playing that to the new experimentals at the moment.

Hey Apathetic, could you lend me a copy of that build, if you have it? I want to compare, but I think you might be right!

[John_Candlebury]

Defence mode is still pretty great for goofing around.

Though you might need to debug yourself some custom gear.

[Arek_PL]

[spoiler][quote=“pisskop, post:30, topic:12588”]Its hard and akward to get into any game with numerous shortcuts. even things like realtime strat games can be hard to do right.

try playing AoE or Starcraft without keyboard shrotcuts. or try immediately using them all to their fullest.[/quote]
actualy in starcraft shortcuts are realy easy to learn, bw had intuitive shortcuts and sc2 have shortcuts displayed over command buttons[/spoiler]

i would sugest to vist this thread to ask questions

i would sugest to take slow zombies mod too when creating new world, this will make game easier

while this game is slighty harder than before is still simple and new difficulites just slow down progress from weak survivor to deathmobile driving god what can pulp hulks with its karate punch and punch tankbots to death

[hexman]

Assuming you’re not just here to whine, I’d suggest you go back and download base 0.C or one of the builds up to about 230something. The game was a lot more about just having fun and fucking around then than it is now, and I personally prefer playing that to the new experimentals at the moment.

I would also agree that the game was more fun in 0.C, in fact it’s the best release so far imo. There’s a lot less to take in, less mods, less stuff, and less other caveats. And I think 0.C will be much less intimidating for beginners, it lags a bit less on my terminal than the current experimentals and I don’t think it has ever segfaulted on me (build 5498 has, four times to be exact) but that’s the nature of exeprimentals anyway.

There was a time when one would go from playing 0.A to 0.B (which used to have a ridiculously long changelog) and so on but at some point, when 0.D became so huge (https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/milestone/10) and experimentals became more attractive, 0.C became extinct and experimentals became the de facto stable.

[Shopkeeper]

[quote=“flergh_666, post:31, topic:12588”]I have to say I’m impressed. Despite my negative tone in this post, a lot of y’all responded with commiseration & genuine empathy, suggesting alternatives etc. Even the less patient asshole replies, well-merited considering my calculated choice of this forum as venue for venting my childish tantrum, at least demonstrated a redeeming quality of wit. Right on.
Yeah I was really annoyed when I wrote that…started w/ a vague intent to have my grievance with a game that’s pissing me off heard by someone associated with its development for once (as opposed to just yelling & cursing at the screen).
Anyway, I realized later that many games that ended up having a profound impact on me involved similar frustration - that’s cause the concepts are new. One of y’all said, “Any game worth playing is gonna have a learning curve”, unless I just came up with that. IDK
I’m sure most of y’all are way smarter than me - I can’t program shit. I read books on it b/c it’s fascinating but it doesn’t sink in. And my use of the term “roguelike enthusiast” in describing myself might be over-generous, considering I only discovered them about a year ago & have yet to win one…
Nevertheless, to those concerned with such things, what frustrated me into that flurry of typing other day was:

1.) When I said I watched YouTube videos, I didn’t mean “in preparation”. I mean after launching the .exe, repeated navigation through the UI menu yielded a seemingly endless array of mods, options, technical OCD micromanagement but my god could not figure out how to launch a basic vanilla CDDA game. If there is such a thing. Watched tutorials, yes, on HOW TO START A GAME - still not clear, know there’s a “Play Right Now” item. Maybe that’s how I got going finally.
2.) A few seconds in, using the “Look Around” keys I lost sight of my character. Couldn’t find him again. Scrolled back & forth for 20 minutes. I even resorted to reading the manual, yes it came to that - but the key it said to use failed to reunite us. Poor little guy, he’s probably still out there. Waiting for me…Yes I actually had to just give up/start over.
3.) What finally did it was finding a bike & attempting to drive. This is of course just my opinion. While I applaud whatever programmer’s intimate acquaintance with physics & inertia & all their hard work here, is it really necessary to make the vehicles conform perfectly with strict adherence to real bicycle mechanics? It’s a roguelike, let me just get in & push a direction key - I’m here in an escapist capacity - don’t make me work! I don’t know, this may be everyone else’s favorite damn feature.
Anyway, I have to go.

Talk to y’all later. My bad about that first post[/quote]

If this seriously wasn’t one off bait, I apologize.

1. For a veteran player having all those options are great to tailor your experience. But to get the closest thing to a vanilla Cataclysm you just gotta keep pressing ‘>’ when creating a world. Don’t trouble yourself with mods or world gen options at the beginning, everything’s balanced on a relatively flat curve at that point and it serves as a good way to learn the basics and get your bearings.

2. Hit the ‘esc’ key next time, its worked for me.

3. Vehicles might seem a little intimidating at first but I think you might’ve missed something, because to ride a bike or drive a car literally all you need to do is hop in the drive’s seat and hit ‘^’ from there you pilot it using the directional keys. Up to accelerate, Left and Right to turn respectively, and Down to slow down when moving forward or reverse when sitting at a standstill. Use the ‘.’ to let a turn pass, this let’s you keep moving at the same speed with needing to speed up/down.

Also, bikes use pedals which rely on your stamina to maintain acceleration making them a little weird. Cars and motorcycles are much easier to use in this regard.

Anyway, welcome to the forums and I hope to see more of you around. Cataclysm really is an amazing game and I hope you won’t let a rough first impression bring it down for you. Consider giving Hayden Foster and the Swarm a read when you’ve got some time, it’s what inspired me to give this game a second chance in the first place.

[Pthalocy]

Whoa, a reply from OP! This thread got really awesome, and we should really pay attention to what this game’s accessibility/lack thereof means to newcomers.

I’ve not played in over a year, and I have to admit, I got stuck on the world generation options too. I wasn’t clear on whether I should be using <> to navigate the top menus, or tab, or something else, but I kept enabling and disabling content mods instead of moving to the next section for ages until I just touched every key in sequence.

Navigating in CDDA is monumentally easier if you have a numpad. I hate the yubnomlkj or whatever nonsense the primary keybindings are. It makes me mad and I usually use arrow keys and pretend moving diagonally doesn’t exist - unless I have a numpad. Then life is good and kind and I don’t have to QWOP my way around! tl;dr this game is a beast we’ve fed past midnight, and continue to feed every damn night. It is as great in some ways as it is terrible in others.

I don’t know how to code either - but I do know how to stare at it until I see patterns and can copy/edit things to produce new results. We need idea guys as much as idea-coders! If you’ve got suggestions on how to improve ease-of-use without oversimplifying game content, that’s exactly the sort of thing we need at times in a game like this.

Roguelikes may well have end goals, but they are often so punishingly difficult, it is more about how long you can last before you start over again. D&D with a particularly mean gamemaster might be a better model for roguelikes than several electronic games out there. Either way, I’m glad to have heard from OP again.

[ApatheticExcuse]

[quote=“ApatheticExcuse, post:14, topic:12588”]Assuming you’re not just here to whine, I’d suggest you go back and download base 0.C or one of the builds up to about 230something. The game was a lot more about just having fun and fucking around then than it is now, and I personally prefer playing that to the new experimentals at the moment.

Hey Apathetic, could you lend me a copy of that build, if you have it? I want to compare, but I think you might be right![/quote]

I’ll see what I can do when I get home. I’ve been playing one of the first experimentals after the 0.C release since I’m pretty sure I buried 0.C itself in a folder somewhere and couldn’t find it. Admittedly, I didn’t look too hard because the differences are minor.

Either way, I’ll try to figure something out for ya, Stop. Might even help the new guy out if he wants to try that.

And maybe as some input to the devs, who don’t seem to be too active lately - any chance you could make old builds available for download on the website itself? That’s pretty standard for many roguelikes.