How do martial arts combine with weapons?

version: 0.E-7938-g8736e6b from a month ago

I understand that not all martial art styles allow the use of weapons, but I don’t understand how it works with those that allow them.

I have a Fire Axe and, if I use it with Brawling, I’m doing >60 damage. But if I use Taekwondo, it stops attacking with the axe and starts kicking, doing no damage at all (see image). Why does Taekwondo “disable” the attacks with the weapon?

Rainoutt on reddit pointed to the Martial Art Rebalance github issues by Hymore246. On Martial Arts Rebalance for Taekwondo #34711 I see:

Firearms are the only reason to wield something in this style. You gain no benefit from using a melee weapon.

Is Taekwondo the only one to “disable” the melee weapon you’re wielding.

What about the styles that allow some weapons (Silat, Krav Maga)? I see they are called “hybrid” on the wiki: Some style (…) are unarmed / weapon hybrid styles. These styles usually have restrictions on which buffs and techniques can be used while armed or unarmed.. Do them disable the attacks with weapons?

I thought it could be related to the difference between Buffs and Techniques, but both Brawling and Taekwondo have their Techniques marked as Unarmed in the wiki.

Is there any guide or info I’m missing?

i think with stuff like krav maga (thats specifically what i use) its more of a defensive martial art style when using a firearm, letting you block 1 extra time as well as increasing your accuracy with the equipped weapon, but it doesnt let you use the techniques unless you’re using melee strikes, so no stun, counter or knockdown. silat, similarly, gives you extra dodges and accuracy based on your dexterity, but you cant use the knockdown or stun. (rather, its not that you -CANT-, just that… you should probably use a melee weapon if you’re gonna melee something.)

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Thanks, I think I got the idea for firearms and that makes sense, using a martial art style with a firearm does not mean you’re hitting with the firearm.

But I’m still confused about axes, batons, knives, swords… how effective are the hybrid techniques with those non-firearm-weapons?

as far as i understand it (i’ve yet to actually make a dedicated melee character actually XD) people do it for the stun, knockdown and counters of various martial art styles, because then you get a free turn to do another attack… i’ve often seen people saying that specific martial art styles arent worth using, or are even detrimental to combat… like, sure, judo gives you immunity to knockdowns and counters grabs with throws, but how often do you get into those situations that you’d have to shift your combat style to be focused on it (and i at least consider disarms to be worthless as they dont really work on zombies/monsters, and npc’s often have guns and shoot you before you get the chance to use it.)

fencing is good if you have a foil to sharpen as it gives you lowered action cost on movements, but not enough generally to give you two moves in a turn… also slightly higher damage

fior di battaglia i hear is a good one if you’ve got a nice mideval weapon, as it lets you perform a lot of defensive techniques as well as knockdowns (but at lower damages)

ninjutsu is one that a LOT of people go for, as it gives you extra stealth passively, as well as a STRONG first strike against unsuspecting enemies. (highly reccomend pairing with the optical camo CBM.)

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I see… as with other questions about CDDA, the answer is “it’s complicated” :).

Thanks for the info.

With melee weapon martial arts it essentially allows you to use specific moves associated with the martial art with specific weapons.

So, breaking it down understandably:

Fencing weapons use fencing weapons like rapiers, epees, broadswords, etc. These weapons allow you to do techniques like stop thrusts and such.

Niten-Ichi-Ryu specifically targets Japanese weapons like katanas and nodachis

If you want to know if your weapon will work with any of the martial arts that you know, just check it on the item menu and scroll down. You should see something like “You can use these martial arts with this weapons: Eskrima, Silat”

While unarmed martial arts aren’t weapon locked, and allow you to use their techniques as long as you have the skill, weapon martial arts are weapon locked and skill locked, but allow you to do great damage plus have your damage scale off your weapon, unarmed weapons are really limited in that regard.

Taekwondo is interesting as it doesn’t default to weapon bashing with firearms, but instead does kicking techniques since the martial art is unique where it doesn’t need your hands to do it’s techniques.
It’s good for people wanting a backup when you have a firearm and some mobs get too close.

I really do recommend going on the wiki and looking up the different martial arts styles and seeing what they do, and their specific strengths and weaknesses.

I think it’s fun to stun-lock a skeletal juggernaut. You can train up skills fast that way, as long as you get the first hit in! Losing stamina is a problem, too, so you have to have an ‘exit strategy’.

Ninjutsu has zero correlation with your visibility to enemies. It gives you +50% damage if you didn’t attack during 3 previous turns. Check “sneak attack” and “loss of surprise” buffs descriptions, it’s all there in plain text.

Here is Hymore246’s answer from reddit:

Hello, Hymore246 here. Seems your found answer but I will expand on it a bit more. I’ll use a section out of the Martial Arts contributor guide I created to explain the types of styles:

Types of Martial Art Styles

Martial arts in CDDA fall into one of three types: Unarmed, Weapon, and Hybrid.

Unarmed Styles can only be used unarmed or with unarmed weapons. These styles are the most variety in techniques and buffs and will usually give some sort of damage boost, have defense bonuses, or give utility to the player.

Weapon Styles can be used with certain weapons but cannot be used unarmed. Weapons styles do more damage than unarmed styles (due to the weapons) but without the appropriate weapon, the player might as well not have the style. Weapons have much less variety in techniques and buffs and will usually never have damage boosts unless they require setup or the style has a significant downside to compensate.

Hybrid Styles can be used unarmed and with certain weapons. Hybrid styles maintain balance by restricting which techniques and buffs can be used with and without a weapon. Having to choose which way to use a Hybrid is an important part of its balance since neither “side” can do everything at once.

As a rule, if you use a weapon with a style that doesn’t support it, the martial art is disabled for as long as you hold the weapon. The same is true for trying to fight unarmed with a weapon style.

Brawling and Taekwondo are “special.”

Brawling’s gimmick is that you can use the style with ANYTHING. Nothing will disable the style and you always get the benefits of the weapon you use.

Taekwondo is a bit different. The style is never disabled by holding something but you never gain the benefit (damage) of what you are holding. Firearms are usually the best weapons to use with it since you can still melee for decent damage if critters get too close while shooting them.