And forums, we’ve had at least one or two really good lore ideas/explanations show up in Dwarf Fortress forum C:DDA thread.
No offense, but your opinion != the opinions of the collective developers and mergers, and it’s their opinions that determine what the defaults in the game are. They have given you the tools to change their vision to match yours with a fairly trivial amount of work (and continue to attempt to add more individual customization options into the game), but they are the ones who get to decide if something fits the game thematically or not, not you.
And personally? I’ve seen at least a few posts of people enjoying the challenge of grenadiers, and the nerf PR hasn’t even been merged yet.[/quote]
Yep. It’s exactly like all the furry shit that got added in, then. Devs love it, so the obvious problems with it get ignored, and it’s not modular by default. Lovely.
Maybe I’d be a little more forgiving towards their “vision” if they’d actually managed to succeed at the kickstarter.
I think the idea is solid, it fills in a much needed threat category, which is a reasonably avoidable yet credible long ranged threat. Turrets and tanks are okay, but they end up being more like “completely avoid this area” markers, rather than a real enemy. Additionally, their attacks are often so sudden and severe, the player does not have a chance to seek cover after being engaged.
I like that the grenadier zombies force the player to reconsider their strategy and force them to adjust positions. It’s a good counter to the window strategy, though with the spawn locations changed, it sounds like they won’t be in a position to actually do the countering. Thematically it makes the most sense to me as a robotic enemy, but then you’d have them blowing up zombies all the time instead of you. Making them a military bionic enhanced zombie sounds like a good in between.
One thing I don’t like seeing is people complaining how a certain thing is going to ruin the game, usually before they’ve even encountered it for themselves. Granted, there have been some decisions that I’m not a huge fan of, but I would rather see the game evolve and progress to challenge the way I play rather than continue to be able to hit the I WIN button using the same tactics from when I first started playing in 0.6. Great ideas take time to be developed, and shooting down a different way of thinking just because you disagree does nobody any favors.
Yep. It's *exactly* like all the furry shit that got added in, then. Devs love it, so the obvious problems with it get ignored, and it's not modular by default. Lovely.Maybe I’d be a little more forgiving towards their “vision” if they’d actually managed to succeed at the kickstarter.
Don’t be a knob. You’re splitting into a completely unrelated discussion because you want to air your irrelevant beefs. Nobody is making Coyote’s game. The devs have provided plenty of capability to remove the things you don’t like. If you don’t want to take advantage of it, then don’t cry about it.
Yeah, maybe I am being a bit unreasonable by asking why the devs refuse to use the modular system they implemented for situations exactly like this.
[quote=“vache, post:63, topic:9483”]I think the idea is solid, it fills in a much needed threat category, which is a reasonably avoidable yet credible long ranged threat. Turrets and tanks are okay, but they end up being more like “completely avoid this area” markers, rather than a real enemy. Additionally, their attacks are often so sudden and severe, the player does not have a chance to seek cover after being engaged.
I like that the grenadier zombies force the player to reconsider their strategy and force them to adjust positions. It’s a good counter to the window strategy, though with the spawn locations changed, it sounds like they won’t be in a position to actually do the countering. Thematically it makes the most sense to me as a robotic enemy, but then you’d have them blowing up zombies all the time instead of you. Making them a military bionic enhanced zombie sounds like a good in between.
One thing I don’t like seeing is people complaining how a certain thing is going to ruin the game, usually before they’ve even encountered it for themselves. Granted, there have been some decisions that I’m not a huge fan of, but I would rather see the game evolve and progress to challenge the way I play rather than continue to be able to hit the I WIN button using the same tactics from when I first started playing in 0.6. Great ideas take time to be developed, and shooting down a different way of thinking just because you disagree does nobody any favors.[/quote]
I think the problem lies more in the fact that most of the game mechanics how enemies work is in kind of unknown to most players and theres no good place to read on tactics: most of the time people encounter dangerous enemy, die and ask on forums what they should do in such a encounter.
Tank drones a a good example, they are so rare that you might not even see another one. Now you should somehow know how to handle it. When I encountered one I knew on that second that I should just run (they were faster than players at this point) since I have no knowledge of it and I was pretty sure it had tank equipment. Tank drones have quite indepth notes about how one should handle encounter with tank drone and what it is capable of but most enemies do not have that info.
Game currently tells quite well which enemies are special with coloring, the moment I saw Elite Grenadier Zombie with special colors I knew it has to be dangerous. Turned out it is more of a glass cannon. Dangerous to unprepared survivor but rather easy if you have piston/rifle and molotov. I’d say I like them more than tank drones since tank drone has nasty habbit of catching me off guard and instantly kill me.
No offense, but your opinion != the opinions of the collective developers and mergers, and it’s their opinions that determine what the defaults in the game are. They have given you the tools to change their vision to match yours with a fairly trivial amount of work (and continue to attempt to add more individual customization options into the game), but they are the ones who get to decide if something fits the game thematically or not, not you.
And personally? I’ve seen at least a few posts of people enjoying the challenge of grenadiers, and the nerf PR hasn’t even been merged yet.[/quote]
Yep. It’s exactly like all the furry shit that got added in, then. Devs love it, so the obvious problems with it get ignored, and it’s not modular by default. Lovely.
Maybe I’d be a little more forgiving towards their “vision” if they’d actually managed to succeed at the kickstarter.[/quote]
What furry shit are you talking about? The animal hybrid mutations?
The grenadiers will be fine after the tweaks. Not exploding instantly on death will be huge.
…
This is exactly what the blacklist/whitelist system does. It makes everything modular. You want to remove a given monster/item? That tiny little text file I posted will do it with any (and as many) items or monsters you could want to remove in seconds, maybe a minute or two at the absolute maximum. That’s far more than any sort of system involving an options menu could ever hope to do, and automatically stays updated with any changes in the code and any new monster/item additions (of which we tend to have at least a few happen every week or so).
Complaining about something not being modular when when we have a system already in place specifically to make everything modular is kinda like ordering a ham, turkey, and lettuce sandwich, watching them build it in front of you, receiving your sandwich that looks exactly like the picture in the menu, and then complaining that there is lettuce on your sandwich because you couldn’t be bothered to take time to ask them to leave it off.
Maybe because creating a new mod for every single creature and item in the game would involve the creation of some 2000 mod folders, would clutter the mod list to the point of uselessness, would need to be constantly updated to match new items and monsters being added, would be extremely easy to break by accident, and would end up taking vast amounts of developer time; all while doing the equivalent of something that you could take 1 minute of your time, once, to fix permanently. And even if we did do that it would still take you the about the same or more time to add a blacklist that does what you want, because the toggle menu would be so full of things you didn’t want to turn off that you would need to sift through. The current method wastes both less of your time and vastly less developer time then adding a toggle for every single monster and item in the game.
And that’s the last I’m going to say on that. If you still want to hold your opinions at this point you aren’t going to be changed by anything I could say anyways, so there’s no point in cluttering up this thread which may yet yield some productive discussion with useless statements.
not mutations, we have clothes like cat ears, tails and animal suits like wolf
and grenadiers are new and will be nerfed soon when tankbots were added they was common and now they are rare and waste most of ammo on random zombies
I just enable the Mundane Zombies mod and add and subtract stuff from it as I see fit. These are getting blackballed hard as hell. I’ll never see one again. There seriously needs to be a real endgame (beyond the portals or wherever) rather than whatever coder is bored inventing some supermonster and throwing it in the middle of the street to blow up newbies looking for canned food.
not mutations, we have clothes like cat ears, tails and animal suits like wolf[/quote]
Your upset about mascot suits? Dinosaur and wolf and other suits are from the various stores promoting food products. Usually pizza (closed), or other places. If there was a ‘high’ school, there should be 1-2 in a locker room there or a chance to be also.
Those minor additions add flavor into the world. It’s just costuming stuff. My niece has a pair of bunny ears. She’s 5. There is also a Tri-corne? Kind of sad there is no fake beard though. I personally own a top hat, I haven’t seen a cane in game yet, with an option to craft a ‘sword’ cane. :\ These thing exists in our world, nothing wrong with them existing in cata.
I love those random flavor moments, they make it more immersion and laughable, I tend to keep those items.
Mascot costumes saved me more than once, early on from freezing as they give massive warmth, and 100% coverage. I wore one recently rather than make specific gear clear the bottom level of an Ice Lab.
I just have once concern about this. Will they be like the zombie scientists and their manhacks… like, for example, the zombie scientists in labs and their tendency to just keep on throwing out manhacks on a faraway room. The moment you find that room it’s filled up with an army of manhacks.
They only release hacks if:
- The player is within 30 tiles
and - They can see the player
Eventually I’d like to change that to “target” instead of “player” so they could use them in targeting non=player enemies, but we don’t have the coding ability to grab the target of a tracking monster yet so it’s limited to just the player.
Also the grenadier nerfs went in last night/this morning depending on your time zone.
They only release hacks if:
- The player is within 30 tiles
and - They can see the player
Eventually I’d like to change that to “target” instead of “player” so they could use them in targeting non=player enemies, but we don’t have the coding ability to grab the target of a tracking monster yet so it’s limited to just the player.
Also the grenadier nerfs went in last night/this morning depending on your time zone.[/quote]
Due to popular demand Grenadier zombies are now known as Granadier Zombies. Instead of grenadehacks these things throw out granadehacks. Out come for normal Granadiers is only BUFFS and for Elite variations they have small cahnce of giving NERFS or BEES! instead of BUFFS.
So, in essence, you plan to make CATAs difficulty to scale according to players skills?
Suppouse it is good to keep player on his toes no matter what he can do/is carrying, BUT for the ones wanting a more traditional zombie-experience (mundane zombies only) it kinda makes the game a bit too easy after a threshold where you have the tools to turn mundane zombies from a real danger into boring punching bags.
So could you consider making the mundane zombies also a potential threat by adding horde tactics (pull down & devour) or giving the bite a small chance of bypassing the armour?
I well know, that mundane zombies is a mod, and as such not a part of the “official universe”, but making mundanes dangerous for higher tier player, if only within the “Mundane zombies” mod.
[quote=“troll from behind, post:74, topic:9483”]So, in essence, you plan to make CATAs difficulty to scale according to players skills?
Suppouse it is good to keep player on his toes no matter what he can do/is carrying, BUT for the ones wanting a more traditional zombie-experience (mundane zombies only) it kinda makes the game a bit too easy after a threshold where you have the tools to turn mundane zombies from a real danger into boring punching bags.
So could you consider making the mundane zombies also a potential threat by adding horde tactics (pull down & devour) or giving the bite a small chance of bypassing the armour?
I well know, that mundane zombies is a mod, and as such not a part of the “official universe”, but making mundanes dangerous for higher tier player, if only within the “Mundane zombies” mod.[/quote]
You might want to grap newer experimental and see zombie hollows.
Edit. not 100% sure if hollows appear on mundane zombies. They do on no special zombies.
Zombie pile-up is planned to happen, but no one did any serious work on it yet.
Also zombies pushing each other so that they surround the player more easily.
One of the biggest problems with mundane zombies is the melee combat mechanics.
Probably the most important of those is the stun on hit. It triggers very reliably later on, to the point where you can kill anything you get the first strike on.
Later on also crits (way too reliable), heavy scaling on good weapons (cutting and knives) and zombie armor.
Melee needs quite a bit of work. It starts quite dangerous, but then difficulty plummets as you gain armor, weapons and weapon skills.
Zombie pile-up is planned to happen, but no one did any serious work on it yet.
Also zombies pushing each other so that they surround the player more easily.
One of the biggest problems with mundane zombies is the melee combat mechanics.
Probably the most important of those is the stun on hit. It triggers very reliably later on, to the point where you can kill anything you get the first strike on.
Later on also crits (way too reliable), heavy scaling on good weapons (cutting and knives) and zombie armor.
Melee needs quite a bit of work. It starts quite dangerous, but then difficulty plummets as you gain armor, weapons and weapon skills.[/quote]
actualy armor increase difficulty because torso enc throw you off balance and surounded player sometimes get hit for 1 or 2 damage or something like 9 damage when send flying by brute or hulk
They only release hacks if:
- The player is within 30 tiles
and - They can see the player[/quote]
This is absolutely not true. As the original poster pointed out, it is common in labs to find a room that a scientist has FILLED with manhacks, and it’s full the very first time you open it.
I would actually guess that it’s the second one that is false, and the first one may well be true (as you can spend a lot of time close enough to something in a lab). The best example of this is scientists in an observation room - the noise of the thing banging keeps them agitated, and they keep releasing manhacks (at least, that’s the mechanic I assume is at work). I’ve seen it in other rooms, though… a utility room once, for example, packed to the gills with manhacks the first time I opened it, to the point I almost wasn’t able to get it closed again.
[quote=“troll from behind, post:74, topic:9483”]So, in essence, you plan to make CATAs difficulty to scale according to players skills?
Suppouse it is good to keep player on his toes no matter what he can do/is carrying, BUT for the ones wanting a more traditional zombie-experience (mundane zombies only) it kinda makes the game a bit too easy after a threshold where you have the tools to turn mundane zombies from a real danger into boring punching bags.
So could you consider making the mundane zombies also a potential threat by adding horde tactics (pull down & devour) or giving the bite a small chance of bypassing the armour?
I well know, that mundane zombies is a mod, and as such not a part of the “official universe”, but making mundanes dangerous for higher tier player, if only within the “Mundane zombies” mod.[/quote]
Zombies ARE “boring punching bags”. After the initial event that kills/zombifies people and the first few days of figuring out the rules of the new world, zombies should be braindead boring to wipe out… unless their numbers are just silly big, which brings me to the point about “horde tactics” you mentioned.
Something like that is desperately needed, and not just for the “mundanes”. I don’t care what kind of awesome abilities you have, no one person can stand against a horde of hundreds bearing down on them (well, ok, if you machine gun them at RANGE, sure).
Some kind of push/trample mechanic would be welcome, and it should ignore a significant amount of armor - power armor should be sufficient to resist the effect and/or the damage, but not much else (though medium/heavy armor should still HELP, I think - perhaps ignore a percentage of armor?).
specials with some anti armor attacks are good, spitters what damage our armor and disolve our socks shockers what can stun us ignoring armor or new grenadier zombies and old hulks and brutes what send you flying these zombies all those zombies can deal high damage even to survivor with realy heavy armor
and i think that horde look still like its wip when i was using debug menu i saw that most hordes are 1-8 zombies in horde so even if you meet one you will barely notice that and best place where you can see power of horde is city what is full of hordes and filled with non horde zombies maybe make some bigger hordes spawn from time to time on edges of map (area big like what will be mapped if you use map terminal or map items)
I haven’t faced the new gredadier yet, but hulks and brutes are a JOKE to a serious melee combatant, and shockers can be negated with a CBM, leaving only spitters as a serious threat… but that threat is really REALLY annoying and likely to be nerfed. We need something that is a threat, a serious threat, that isn’t just plain annoying. Some kind of horde mechanic could do this, similar to how zombies can group attack on walls to bash them down.
Newbies can get away from a horde, but it could still be a real threat to seasoned survivors, especially if masters (or “masterminds” or something) are able to direct horse movement (after a few seasons, maybe?).