I’ve thought about things such as killing people I know and such. I’ve thought about the lives id be ending, what they would miss, their loved ones, etc. I can honestly say, I would not care. In such a cataclysm, your life, put in my hands, would depend solely on your usefulness to me. If you show me no reason for you to live, then you will be more useful as food. Does that make me a Sociopath? Probably, within the study of psychology placing little value on human life is a sign of a sociopath/psychopath. I do believe that everyone has their right to their own opinion, and we aren’t in an actual cataclysm. Anyway I guess my build in-game should include the psychopath trait sooo… yeah.
as said before its much easier to stand around and say yes, or no I would have a problem in this situation. ACTUALLY being in the situation is really the only way to tell with these things however. In addition to this, there is a difference between making a calculated decision to kill a person, and just up and killing people because you have no use for them and their are no longer any laws that say you can’t.
To put this in more perspective, I have cut on dead animals in person, with little problem. But show me a video of a person having knee surgery and I am liable to get dizzy, pale, nauseous, and possibly hurl if I can’t get away from it. Our minds are bizarre and react in ways that can be totally illogical and unpredictable.
[quote=“someguy, post:16, topic:10141”][quote=“Dlightfull, post:13, topic:10141”]For me, human beings are worse than animals, since animals live in harmony with Nature, while human beings (admittedly not all of them) are destroying her (Nature i mean, or Earth, which is the same, basically, in the context i wrote and it’s ‘her’ because Earth has a soul and because Earth is our spiritual mother and Sun is our spiritual father, at least that’s what i believe).[/quote]Animals don’t live in harmony. They consume every resource available to them, which leads to excess population dying off. You’re confusing an at best temporary equilibrium with some mythical concept of balance.
Not to say I don’t think we shouldn’t manage our use of resources to better preserve our environment, but we’re practically unique in our ability to do that.
There’s no such thing as harmony in nature, if there were nothing would evolve.[/quote]
I don’t believe in evolution, sorry. I do believe there is harmony. We, humans, destroyed the existing balance, that’s why today we might have the impression that animals consume all the resources available to them. But before we destroyed the balance, they lived in harmony.
[quote=“Litppunk, post:22, topic:10141”]as said before its much easier to stand around and say yes, or no I would have a problem in this situation. ACTUALLY being in the situation is really the only way to tell with these things however. In addition to this, there is a difference between making a calculated decision to kill a person, and just up and killing people because you have no use for them and their are no longer any laws that say you can’t.
To put this in more perspective, I have cut on dead animals in person, with little problem. But show me a video of a person having knee surgery and I am liable to get dizzy, pale, nauseous, and possibly hurl if I can’t get away from it. Our minds are bizarre and react in ways that can be totally illogical and unpredictable.[/quote]
To answer this and some other replies. I have never killed/butchered a human. I did kill/butcher animals though. I can watch videos of killings and blood and stuff like that with no emotion whatsoever, be it animal or human, it’s just a video to me and it’s about an already dead person.
I don’t know, perhaps a specialist would find i’m a sociopath/psychopat, but i do live in society, in a “civilized” country, i interact with modern people and i’m quite good/effective at that.
Belteshazzar, i said i could only butcher, killing living animals/people is traumatic to me. I am not a teenager, i am 30. I don’t like/feel the need to boast or wave my e-peen or something like that, since i couldn’t care less about what other people think about me. I also wrote before that i play this game thinking that zombies are soulless, that’s how i perceive it, no amount of lore is going to change that.
But it’s not really about me, the point is that the current morale penalties are not really realistic, since they do not account for such people like me or Nickal. Yes, i could pick the psychopath trait to change that, but i really don’t think i am a psychopath, i just have different views than the mainstream (does that make me a psychopath?).
You don’t believe in evolution? Well, you just threw one of the most important biological theory out of the window, even though it’s backed up by literally tons of science, it’s even >proven< in labs, we saw things evolve with our own eyes. Now you start sounding like one of the Creationist Christian Nutcases out there, like Kent Hovind…
I could tell you now that, in the past, there were different animals, which ended becoming extinct due to other animals, i can tell you that this actually happens on a daily basis, even without the interference from human kind, but whats the point? You’d just say I’m wrong, or that I don’t have any proof. That’s one of the reasons why I didn’t want to discuss religion.
[quote=“Dlightfull, post:23, topic:10141”]To answer this and some other replies. I have never killed/butchered a human. I did kill/butcher animals though. I can watch videos of killings and blood and stuff like that with no emotion whatsoever, be it animal or human, it’s just a video to me and it’s about an already dead person.
I don’t know, perhaps a specialist would find i’m a sociopath/psychopat, but i do live in society, in a “civilized” country, i interact with modern people and i’m quite good/effective at that.
Belteshazzar, i said i could only butcher, killing living animals/people is traumatic to me. I am not a teenager, i am 30. I don’t like/feel the need to boast or wave my e-peen or something like that, since i couldn’t care less about what other people think about me. I also wrote before that i play this game thinking that zombies are soulless, that’s how i perceive it, no amount of lore is going to change that.
But it’s not really about me, the point is that the current morale penalties are not really realistic, since they do not account for such people like me or Nickal. Yes, i could pick the psychopath trait to change that, but i really don’t think i am a psychopath, i just have different views than the mainstream (does that make me a psychopath?).[/quote]
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Sociopaths can interact with other people. Hell, they are quite liked most often, that doesn’t change the fact that they’re sociopaths. In fact, most people find sociopaths very charming at first. so, you telling us that youre ‘efficient’ with other humans does fit the bill.
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You might not want to play games when you can’t accept the LORE of the game. Especially when the game itself is supposed to be a (roguelike) roleplaying/survival game. The Lore is one of the more important parts of these kind of games and you throw it out of the window. As it stands now, you’re playing CDDA basically as a glorified shooter game, zombies, triffids and everything else are just enemies which you need to kill, ignoring all the interesting background story. Just lovely.
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Are you a sociopath? Well, one more common description would be the following:
A sociopath can be defined as a person who has Antisocial Personality Disorder. This disorder is characterized by a disregard for the feelings of others, a lack of remorse or shame, manipulative behavior, unchecked egocentricity, and the ability to lie in order to achieve one's goals. Sociopaths can be dangerous at worst or simply very difficult to deal with[...]
Disregard of feeling for others? Check.
Lack of remorse or shame? Check.
Manipulative behaviour? Unsure.
Unchecked Egocentricity? Unsure, but tendency to yes.
Ability to lie in order to achieve goals? Unsure.
So, thats, let’s say, halfway to a confirmed sociopath. We can’t really check the rest because we don’t know you personally, but at least I’m somewhat convinced you’re one.
Or maybe you are some kind of weird religious fanatic, which isn’t much better, to be honest. Choose your poison
LOL mate, i guess all of us could be called sociopaths then. I may be one, i am not denying.
I don’t disregard others and i feel for them more than “normal” people do. I do have an almost lack of shame, true. Manipulative behavior, yeah oftentimes. No egocentricity, But yes to ability to lie to achieve goals.
There is more than enough proof that evolution theory is a lie, but modern science just ignores it. There is evolution and there is involution, but Darwin theory is just some awkward way to try and explain it (completely one sided too). It is a very long discussion and i can’t be arsed to have it on this board, especially since i am pretty sure you would not understand me, even if you’d want and try to. We’re just too different. I’m a stranger in this western society, i don’t feel good in it, but i’m a captive. Yeah, i could get out of it and live as i’d want to, but i would have to give up to some things i am not able to, at least at this moment.
In order to understand me, you’d have to be different. If you’re really interested in understanding the difference between us, you could try to read Erich Fromm’s book “To Be or To Have”, that would be a good starting point.
[quote=“Dlightfull, post:25, topic:10141”]LOL mate, i guess all of us could be called sociopaths then. I may be one, i am not denying.
I don’t disregard others and i feel for them more than “normal” people do. I do have an almost lack of shame, true. Manipulative behavior, yeah oftentimes. No egocentricity, But yes to ability to lie to achieve goals.[/quote]
We all exhibit those things to some extend, but sociopaths/psychopaths are more extreme. However, let’s drop this topic completely, as you seem to accept the possiblity. Theres also the point that we’re no Psychologists, so…yeah.
Involution as in regression? That’s part of evolution too. Evolution simply states that living beings will change over time when their environment changes. That, obviously, can also mean that they change back into a state similar to their former state if the environment changes back to the way it was before. I could name several examples of this happening.
Also, Darwin doesn’t have a lot to do with the Theory of Evolution anymore. While he was the person who pretty much started it, the Theory itself was revised several times, improved even. The Theory is, of course, not perfect, no theory is, it’s just a try to explain how animals (and humans) evolved into their current form. There are still mistakes in it or room for improvement, but the theory itself is very, very solid. We have fossil evidence for it, Homologies, the DNA itself shows it as well, we have examples as well, basically all of biology and several other scientific areas such as archeology, chemistry and so on accept and support the theory of evolution. The only ‘proof’ that evolution is a lie comes from people like Creationists, i mentioned Kent Hovind earlier, John Pendleton or Carl Baugh would be also valid examples of such people. Evolution doesn’t fit in with their world view, so they try to discredit it, and they fail spectacularly at it.
The title of the book is “to have or to be” by the way, if anyone wants to look for it. The book itself speaks about how the Human changed since the industrial revolution, that they are more interested in materialistic goods and that they neglect the ‘to be’. He argues that we lost our ‘inner selves’ in favour of materialistic gain, and that materialistic goods become useless after death, because the life after death will only care for what the person ‘was inside’ in their lifetime.
The book is nice and dandy, there’s just one problem with it. While it’s true that it was written by a Psychologist, the book itself is about Philosophy. It talks about the humans having a soul which they neglect in favour of Wealth and property, that the industrialization made great promises, but in the end just improved the materialistic thinking of the masses, that it takes away from life itself because we don’t care about the ‘beings’ around us anymore.
Funny enough, I agree with parts of the book. People nowadays are too focused on material gain, they do neglect the relationships between people and so on, but that isn’t of interest for Science.
Science itself just tries to explain the world we live in. Nothing more, nothing less. It watches, it learns, it makes theories and tests them. If a theory is good, it survives and will be expanded, improved. It has no interest in philosphy, why we’re on earth, what happens after death, if we have a soul or if there is a god. It just tries to explain how the world works, and esoteric or religious things like a God usually don’t find a place in there, they are not necessary to explain things or can’t be proven. There were enough people who tried to find a ‘soul’ in people - some kind of energy or ghost which will leave the body when we die, but they never found anything. As it stands now in Science, we, as people, are just electric pulses in our brain, we are simply gone when we’re braindead, there is no afterlife, there was nothing before our lives either ; unless, of course, you can somehow proove that we have a soul, that it’s somehow measurable.
Recommendation: We stop talking about this now. I just realized what big wall of text im writing, and it has nothing to do with the topic, we’re basically spamming at this point 
Dlight, if you’re really interested in discussing matters further, send me a pm.
Back to thread:some professions could be more accustomed to killing (killing animals is casual thing for hunter,for example).
Lets move this to a different thread if thats all good with you guys. Id love to be in on this as well. I love a good debate. ^.^ especially since everyone is staying so level headed and trying to see stuff from the others point of view…oh my god. Has this really just happened on the internet? Isn’t this supposed to be a sign of the real life apocalypse or something?
Anyways, Evolution is real. It just doesn’t work like everyone THINKS it does. Everyone is focused on one smooth evolution slowly moving things in whatever direction is best for the evolvee. When in reality evolution is stagnant untill something drastic forces its hand. Environmental, emotional, or any other stress-er that disrupts homeostasis causes evolution in a violent and sudden fashion causing a ridiculously large percentage of deaths, the survivors being those that find a radically new way to live. It is horribly fantastic. Fantastically horrible? Anyways Lets finish this discussion in the new thread I made for it:
Everyones crazy ideas on how the world works thread
Well, this discussion is endless and, to be honest i am not really interested in conducting it on a forum. I don’t really like to write, i’d rather speak.
There are lots of data on human beings remains from millions of years old, that don’t go with any improved evolution theory. There is the problem of atlantida, that modern science just ignores, although it has been proved scientifically that it existed (Zhirov N.Th. Scientific Atlantology, Its Paths and Problem). The list goes on. Science nowadays is a new religion, with very high dogmatism. You are not allowed, as a scientist, to try and disprove established theories, or you’ll be marginalized.
Yeah… lets just put a big ol’ [citation needed] around everything you post and leave it at that shall we.
Because you’re not just wrong, it’s clear you’re actually wilfully ignorant and arguing with people like that is a complete waste of time.
[quote=“Kadian, post:3, topic:10141”]There is one simple problem with this: You would take away massive amounts of player freedom if the game has what you describes.
CDDA isn’t only a Roguelike, it’s also a roleplaying game ; people create their own player, they create backstories for their characters, they decide how the character behaves, how they try to survive, or even >if< they want to survive. Now, to your ideas:
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Set home-town: You take away the freedom of the player to choose where the character is from. Did he live in the town next to the shelter? Were they on vacation and were caught in the Cataclysm? Maybe they were obducted or they just moved to the new town. You realize something? All of those possibilities possibly clash with a set home town, and at least 2, possible 3 of those possibilities would make a morale drop because of ‘seeing your home town’ impossible (On vacation? you don’t really have massive emotions for a specific town. Obducted? Maybe you’re not from New ENgland and you never really saw one of the towns or had time to get emotions for a town/the citizens. Recently moved? Maybe you lived in a whole other nation before…)
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Zombie-Relatives: Bad Idea as well. As shown in 1., your family might not even be in New England. Or maybe the player-created past says the player never had siblings, or their parents already died - where would a brother/sister/father/mother zombie then come from? The ‘Mother’ Hallucination is more viable, simply because it’s not real and most people either >know< their mother or have someone who they consider to be their mother (Even if it’s not their real mother.)
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traumatic experiences: While on paper a good thing, a bad thing ingame-wise. How could a game be interesting if you can’t even kill one of the main enemies without having a traumatic experience and what not? He, i killed a zombie in CDDA! . . . now my character lies on the floor, sobbing, and theres a hulk closing in…you see the problem? I’m all for realism in games, but you have to change some things in order to make a game fun to play…
Also, theres also the option that the character, because hes in a state of danger, panic and so on, just ‘ignores’ what they saw or they did, because survival is more important. This is also something you shouldn’t forget, our Mind is great at keeping itself somewhat sane ; It locks the memory away, buries it under something else or simply tries to ignore it. Theres also the possibility that the mind >can’t< or >don’t want to< understand whats going on or what they do.
There was a discussion prior to this one, a few montsh old by now (i think) - it had a similar topic, about some kind of threshold which will increase over time, because the survivor becomes accustomed to the killing and so on - I think it was dropped for for a similar reason i stated above, because it would make playing the first few days nearly impossible as you couldn’t go near a town without breaking that treshold. -
prone/crawling/crouching: Already talked about, while people were talking about sneaking - Not sure what happened to the discussion, but i know that there was at least 1 dev in that discussion too.
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going crazy due loneliness: Yes, real thing. Again, not a viable option to implement because of the current limitations of the game. NPCS and factions are >not< finished as of now, some people don’t even have them active. Thats probably one of the main reasons the game does not have some kind of loneliness modifier, as it would make playing without npcs nearly impossible.[/quote]
For safety reasons i will avoid commenting on this unholy clashing of life perspectives and points of view that became a thing for some reason on this thread.
I see your answer and i raise you reasonable enough objections.
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Yeah well i dont really see how being on vacations or moved to a new town clashes with the existence itself of a hometown, i dont mean to start in your hometown like you say, but the possibility that it does exists, exists, and yeah make belive roleplay may fill in all the blanks but for people who dont, because not everyone does roleplay like that, i like to play the game as if it were me doing the surviving, and the things ill do, that aside, being obducted, on vacation, moved, or just away while the cataclysm struck, does not makes your hometown less of a fact, i mean this town being randonmly generated on the map, and whilst i may not have feelings for the town itself or townsfolk for that matter (but if you want to get into it there are small towns where people do have feelings for the formentioned), say you are in the cataclysm, heck you were on vacation, a spa, whatever you feel like, after days, weeks, months or even years of survival, comming across your former hometown does brings a feeling of nostalgia, and more your own house because hey, its your house, the house you grew up in and no matter how much of a socipath you may be, there is this small feeling of hope tham maybe when you cross the portal of your house, there may be something, and feelings of sadness/nostalgia alike.
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Yes your family may not be in the same country but there is still people you know, friends, collegues, that one guy you ocasionally clash with at the bar for casual friday after-work meetings, i dont mean familiar as in family wise, i mean it like you know this person wise and now you have to crush their skull in m8.
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Well that is a fair point, but its kind of far fetched on the aspects of kill zombie = mental breackdown. Killing a random ass zombie isnt the same as killing a person related to you, as a zombie, there is still some impact on ones mental health, and i dont meant for the character to lock itself out of reality in realization of what they may’ve just done, but still feel like crap because fact is, you did it, it happened, the same way youd feel guilty for killing a zombie child, just a lower morale penalty. Maybe even when the character may reach a safe place, then it would be the time for them to sob it off, or whatever.
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Huh, well alright then, thank you.
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Well that proves an impeedment but i think it should be noted out as a posible possibility, and i dont mean go insane insane, just basketball buddy named michael insane. And i was talking more between the lines of morale penalties for the lack of social interaction, like nicotine abstinence.
I respect the roleplaying trama, i do, but speaking from another point of view, that is a girl playing a zombie game, i want the game to challenge me, to pose me with impediments from all aspects, i dont want to just, make belive all that, i cant, its boring, from my point of view, i respect yours before another onslaught of arguments sprouts from this bean.
TL;DR the wall of texts
Humans became assholes since they became smart enough to excuse violence and stupidity with reason (sort of) and that is a thing that will never chance for many reasons, etc etc, the universe is grand and were but nothing to it, etc etc. Y’alls need to chill out a bit, leave other people’s perspective of life itself to their own devices, jeez.
What they are getting at is you can already play however you want to. Forcing features like that would get in the way of role playing.
If you want the game to be more difficult just change some settings up, play a scenario, and or change the traits/do random character gen to make the game more challenging.
I would think that adding a activateble mod for hometown would only make the role players happy. Maybe choose to be “in or near hometown” where you are a maximum of one town away, or “Long Way away” where map of hometown is visible as well as a strip of road to where you started playing. This version of mod could have adjustable distance where you pick the min-max range you are from your hometown (if map gen doesn’t find a suitable town you are errored out and have to input new min/max.
^^^ this seems to me like an everyone wins solution, though someone will have to go through the trouble of actually codding it for this to happen.
[quote=“Litppunk, post:32, topic:10141”]What they are getting at is you can already play however you want to. Forcing features like that would get in the way of role playing.
If you want the game to be more difficult just change some settings up, play a scenario, and or change the traits/do random character gen to make the game more challenging.
I would think that adding a activateble mod for hometown would only make the role players happy. Maybe choose to be “in or near hometown” where you are a maximum of one town away, or “Long Way away” where map of hometown is visible as well as a strip of road to where you started playing. This version of mod could have adjustable distance where you pick the min-max range you are from your hometown (if map gen doesn’t find a suitable town you are errored out and have to input new min/max.
^^^ this seems to me like an everyone wins solution, though someone will have to go through the trouble of actually codding it for this to happen.[/quote]
Thank you, thats what i was going to get at.