Gas Pumps Cost Money (Cash Cards)

[Creamy_Goodness]

As stated in the subject, I simply believe gas in cataclysm should not be free, vending machines still work with no electricity why shouldn’t pumps.

I know everyone here is a fan of making the game harder, so tell me if you support my idea of a change of getting gas form gas stations and a slight increase in the rarity of gas

Additionally gas stations could differ on price of gas, tried to fight through a horde of hulks to get gas a dollar cheaper a gallon.

[John_Candlebury]

Every gas pump in existence has a manual pump hidden under a metal panel (sometimes under lock but more often not even that), yeah you heard it right, the only thing preventing you from having free gas is the station’s attendant (and your conscience, maybe). Its there especially for situations like cata, where you may need the gas to start rescue services (well you are rescuing yourself) or for running generators.

It’s easy to suppose that the player is using that, also I think that needing cash cards to use gas pumps wouldn’t feel very apocalyptic at all. Pretty sure we can find more suitable uses for cash cards (right now we have the ammo and food dispensing machines) and we will probably have fully automated stores someday.

[Zaweri_Runewright]

…Wat? Ammo vending machine? WAT.

[John_Candlebury]

Yeah, inside a variant of gunstore, you cannot crowbar them open though; gotta blow them up or run them over (well you can pay, but with ammo prices who would do that?)

[AseaHeru]

Can you smash/take apart the ammo venders?

[Birdie]

If you try, it should shoot you in the kneecap and loudly declare GOD BLESS AMERICA and the national anthem begins playing loudly, all legal citizen zombies of the 50 united states of america stand up and howl and then punch you in the face for attempting to steal from an american establishment and also you have a bullet in your knee.

[TheFlame52]

If you try [to break into a ammo vending machine], it should shoot you in the kneecap and loudly declare GOD BLESS AMERICA and the national anthem begins playing loudly

YES

[jimboblordofeskimos]

Can you smash/take apart the ammo venders?

Well, !Science! has shown me that these things dont work: Crowbar, lockpick, gunfire, 100 blows with a sledgehammer, 50 hits with the sonic resonator cbm. Ammo in them is crazy expensive as well. Like 1500 bucks for a pack by memory.

[Senrain]

[quote=“AseaHeru, post:5, topic:6148”]Can you smash/take apart the ammo venders?

Well, !Science! has shown me that these things dont work: Crowbar, lockpick, gunfire, 100 blows with a sledgehammer, 50 hits with the sonic resonator cbm. Ammo in them is crazy expensive as well. Like 1500 bucks for a pack by memory.[/quote]

Yeah, those vending machines are made to withstand grenade blasts. Nothing short of C4 is gonna bust one open. Although I’ve managed to bust into one by chucking around 10 grenades at it.

Also I’ve never seen ammo that costs more than ~$800. If you’ve been collecting cash cards and piling all the money into one card for a bit you should have no problem purchasing ammunition. Just keep in mind each charge on a cash card is one cent. So a cash card with 29299 charges has $292.99 on it.

[Zireael]

Another thing that needs the prices fixed by Rivet?

[kevin.granade]

Ammo in them is crazy expensive as well. Like 1500 bucks for a pack by memory.

That’s cents, I just took a quick look through the jsons and the things that are over $1,000 should be, like plutonium cells, gold bars, and very high-grade military ammunition.
That having been said, $100 for a box of ammunition is still over the top. The price system was originally supposed to for the basis of NPC bartering, and we’re re-purposing it for use by vending machines, which should use pre-cataclysm prices for things. Updating all those values is a very slow process, please have some patience.
Eventually most if not all items should have a pre-cataclysm price for use by things that are too dumb to understand that the cataclysm happened (mostly robots of some kind or another) and a unit-less value that is scaled based on how valuable the item is post-cataclysm for use in a yet-to-be-implemented bartering system.

[RAM]

This is the future, so there is probably more automated sales-devices. One could also argue for the species of corporate distopia where people with funds are inherently superior. You could have clubs that deduct a small fee but only grant access if you have a large amount in the card. A full card could grant access to all sorts of things without actually deducting anything. I could certainly see such a device at a casino for example. Or even all but the most humble of commercial venues running a check for serious customers… Does anyone else think that it is absurdly easy to steal credit from other people’s cards? There should probably be some sort of hacking check. Perhaps with a difficulty based on the card’s value to convert the card so that it is considered to be owned by the player.
As far as being on topic goes, I would expect their to be some petrol pumps that still used the old system if you search for long enough. But automated ones do make sense. There would probably be a hacking option to tell them that you are an official emergency vehicle or one of the company’s own tankers or something. And a mechanical check to bypass the electronics. Or you could just disassemble the thing and bring your own pump, though you would lose a lot of fluid that way…

[kevin.granade]

The assumption is as John says, you’re assumed to be able to get at the gas with direct access to the pumps, I don’t see a need to throw up an additional requirement to getting the gas, the primary limiter on gas is the zombies that are generally nearby, and the fact that it tends to run out pretty fast.

[acehawk]

[quote=“jimboblordofeskimos, post:8, topic:6148”]Ammo in them is crazy expensive as well. Like 1500 bucks for a pack by memory.

That’s cents, I just took a quick look through the jsons and the things that are over $1,000 should be, like plutonium cells, gold bars, and very high-grade military ammunition.
That having been said, $100 for a box of ammunition is still over the top. The price system was originally supposed to for the basis of NPC bartering, and we’re re-purposing it for use by vending machines, which should use pre-cataclysm prices for things. Updating all those values is a very slow process, please have some patience.
Eventually most if not all items should have a pre-cataclysm price for use by things that are too dumb to understand that the cataclysm happened (mostly robots of some kind or another) and a unit-less value that is scaled based on how valuable the item is post-cataclysm for use in a yet-to-be-implemented bartering system.[/quote]

The vending machines could be hooked up to an advanced auto-pricing system that taking in regional conditions and purchasing patterns to instantly adjust prices without human intervention, insuring that the corporation owning them gets every last cent they could possibly make at any time.

The effect being the vending machines jack up their prices as supplies dwindle and they see people stop buying things from normal stores.

Also, why don’t gas stations and vending machines call in robopolice? Paying with cash would prevent a police alarm, breaking in, either the manual pump or blowing up the machine, is free but gets you a fight.

[Khrysanth]

“Advanced auto-pricing” might work for the vending machine’s own product, but it is unlikely that any corporation would support giving sales data to their competitors, and thus the vending machine would only know about its own contents (and the regional supply, which should be regarded as nothing once communication ends).

Setting alarms on an emergency feature sounds great… Until the responding emergency services block in the ambulance that is working in an emergency disaster area and needed to refuel. Then you just have a PR nightmare on your hands along with the uncomfortable speculation about how many people that oversight killed, followed by lawsuits that will cost you more than any potential theft. This is an even bigger issue with automated systems since, in the event that using the manual system is necessary, the automated system wouldn’t be able to verify identities and can’t be reasoned with.

As for vending machines, it would depend on the situation. Would you want an armed response team to accost an angry child who kicked a vending machine for not properly vending? Do you really need additional alarms on a vending machine in a store that almost certainly has a top of the line security system to protect the product inside, such as a gun shop?

[Keyreper]

If you try, it should shoot you in the kneecap and loudly declare GOD BLESS AMERICA and the national anthem begins playing loudly

this needs to be added

[KA101]

I’m liking Krysanth’s perspective here. There could be all sorts of automated/barrier security involved, but at the end of the day human staff are the most versatile and cost-effective Backup System available.

[jimboblordofeskimos]

[quote=“jimboblordofeskimos, post:8, topic:6148”]Ammo in them is crazy expensive as well. Like 1500 bucks for a pack by memory.

That’s cents, I just took a quick look through the jsons and the things that are over $1,000 should be, like plutonium cells, gold bars, and very high-grade military ammunition.
That having been said, $100 for a box of ammunition is still over the top. The price system was originally supposed to for the basis of NPC bartering, and we’re re-purposing it for use by vending machines, which should use pre-cataclysm prices for things. Updating all those values is a very slow process, please have some patience.
Eventually most if not all items should have a pre-cataclysm price for use by things that are too dumb to understand that the cataclysm happened (mostly robots of some kind or another) and a unit-less value that is scaled based on how valuable the item is post-cataclysm for use in a yet-to-be-implemented bartering system.[/quote]

I couldnt find the vender I was at before, but I found another one with shottie beanbags for 900 bucks, most of the shotgun stuff seems around the 800-900 range, other stuff seems to be around the 400-600 range, .500s and .50s are 1k each, so are some of the 20x66 rounds though this is from an experimental from a few weeks ago.

[acehawk]

[quote=“Khrysanth, post:15, topic:6148”]“Advanced auto-pricing” might work for the vending machine’s own product, but it is unlikely that any corporation would support giving sales data to their competitors, and thus the vending machine would only know about its own contents (and the regional supply, which should be regarded as nothing once communication ends).

Setting alarms on an emergency feature sounds great… Until the responding emergency services block in the ambulance that is working in an emergency disaster area and needed to refuel. Then you just have a PR nightmare on your hands along with the uncomfortable speculation about how many people that oversight killed, followed by lawsuits that will cost you more than any potential theft. This is an even bigger issue with automated systems since, in the event that using the manual system is necessary, the automated system wouldn’t be able to verify identities and can’t be reasoned with.

As for vending machines, it would depend on the situation. Would you want an armed response team to accost an angry child who kicked a vending machine for not properly vending? Do you really need additional alarms on a vending machine in a store that almost certainly has a top of the line security system to protect the product inside, such as a gun shop?[/quote]

I would argue that the lore supports all these things and more, the USA has gotten extremely distopian in the years before the cataclysm. And where is this top of the line security in gun shops you are talking about? All I see is easily shattered windows.

As for the pumps and emergency services, emergency workers would have an access code or an access key, similar to the emergency access keys in elevators. If you get your Hands on one of these, free gas again without a fight.

My point is this, I think society sounds like it was fucked beyond reason even before everything went to hell, I think the automated response systems should reflect that.

And why would communications shut down? Sattilites and nuclear batteries, maybe even entirely automated nuclear powerplants with hundred year supplies.

[Khrysanth]

I would argue that the lore supports all these things and more, the USA has gotten extremely distopic in the years before the cataclysm. And where is this top of the line security in gun shops you are talking about? All I see is easily shattered windows.

Ironically, most security systems are dependent on electricity. Also tend to be dependent on people turning them on, which they tend not to do in the middle of a riot/evacuation/being murdered.

My point is this, I think society sounds like it was fucked beyond reason even before everything went to hell, I think the automated response systems should reflect that.

And why would communications shut down? Sattilites and nuclear batteries, maybe even entirely automated nuclear powerplants with hundred year supplies.

Satellites would work just fine. It’s the ground side that’s at issue. Pull out your cell phone. Odds are good that your phone calls will bounce through a satellite at some point, right? Take out the power to the towers or the uplink, and your phone can’t do anything about the satellite that’s still working just fine. Now you have an advanced calculator and MP3 player that will run out of power and do nothing more than be a paperweight.

And if “entirely automated nuclear powerplants with hundred year supplies” were around, we wouldn’t be running around in the dark scavenging for batteries to run our food dehydrators.