Firearms should deal piercing damage, not cutting

[Adrian]

Because bullets do not cut, and cargo pants should offer absolutely zero protection against firearms.
And the opposite can be advocated for loaded MBR vests and kevlar vests: they should offer more protection against piercing damage, and less against cutting damage.

[grisamentum]

Kevlar vests definitely shouldn’t offer LESS against cutting damage, even if they offer more against piercing. Trying to go through a vest like that with a slashing weapon is a losing proposition.

[GlyphGryph]

There are only two types of damage in the game, bashing and cutting.

Of the two, I think cutting is most appropriate.

[Adrian]

I agree that of the two cutting is most appropriate, but that way it still allows for pants to soak up damage from bullets. Which is an unnecessary break from the realism of the survivalcraft genre and, quite frankly, silly.

So i’m then advocating the inclusion of a “piercing” damage type and to have that damage only be soaked by appropriate materials and prevented by an appropriate thickness.

[Binky]

[quote=“Adrian, post:4, topic:5335”]I agree that of the two cutting is most appropriate, but that way it still allows for pants to soak up damage from bullets. Which is an unnecessary break from the realism of the survivalcraft genre and, quite frankly, silly.

So i’m then advocating the inclusion of a “piercing” damage type and to have that damage only be soaked by appropriate materials and prevented by an appropriate thickness.[/quote]

Agreed, especially with the (hopefully soon) inclusion of NPCs with ranged weapons. Piercing could also be used for long toothed monsters.

In my roguelike I’ve been combining damage types (still very much in prototype) with bites being a mix of cutting and piercing and the combinations have added a lot of interesting options. Adding more types of damage (and resistance) would add a lot to the crafting system and more importantly give the player more difficult/interesting choices on what to wear/use in certain situations.

[ted]

Pants do not “soak up damage from bullets” in any meaningful sense unless you are wearing lots of them, and in that case the problem is that the game doesn’t prevent that.

Guns are already vastly better than other weapons; there’s no practical need for this change, just psychological ones.

[EkarusRyndren]

Guns are already vastly better than other weapons; there’s no practical need for this change, just psychological ones.

Really? because I find it more than a little poorly balanced that I can survive a burst of fire from a 9mm SMG to the head because I descended into that ice lab with my mighty sleeping bag on.

Then again It also bothers me that 9 shots out of 8 will blow a survivor’s brains out from an automated turret.

Then again again again it also also bothers me that the only defenders of a lab are automated turrets and sentry bots…

[i2amroy]

Piercing and cutting are actually the same type of damage, it just depends on a few other things (amount of damage done, weapon type, etc.) on how it handles it IIRC.

[Adrian]

Then wouldn’t it be simpler to just split it off into a third type and calculate damage from that? Instead of having the game go through multiple checks for weapon type and stuff i mean?

[HunterAlpha1]

Hold on, if there is no piercing damage, then what’s the point of training the Piercing skill?

[i2amroy]

Then wouldn’t it be simpler to just split it off into a third type and calculate damage from that? Instead of having the game go through multiple checks for weapon type and stuff i mean?

Reworking combat system > (work) then leaving it as is. This is one of those things that has been this way for a long time, and nobody has ever bothered to rework it yet.

Piercing skill is used when items are dealing piercing damage (which is technically cutting damage under certain circumstances).

[EkarusRyndren]

Hold on, if there is no piercing damage, then what’s the point of training the Piercing skill?

Best guess is it affects how much damage you can do with weapons that should pierce that aren’t guns. (Knives, spears, etc)

[Adrian]

Bashing weapons that train the bashing skill deal bashing damage
Cutting weapons that train the cutting skill and deal cutting damage
Piercing weapons that train the piercing skill but deal cutting damage

Now i just want it changed for consistency and neurotic satisfaction

[Hektoer]

IMHO this does need fixed to boost realism, but the advent of guns realistically needs four damage types. Blunt, cut, pierce and kinetic. Current suggestion is knives and bullets both have pierce, but Kevlar will stop lower grade kinetic weapons (handgun rounds) but a knife stab will get through it. Metal armor (medieval ring mail or plate) is closer to the opposite.

[Gideon]

IMHO this does need fixed to boost realism, but the advent of guns realistically needs four damage types. Blunt, cut, pierce and kinetic. Current suggestion is knives and bullets both have pierce, but Kevlar will stop lower grade kinetic weapons (handgun rounds) but a knife stab will get through it. Metal armor (medieval ring mail or plate) is closer to the opposite.

Heck, then lets add a bunch more!
Impact, for broad damage sources like falling or explosives.
Heat, for thermal effects.
Chem, for acidic effects.
Why, I bet we could come up with 10 to 20 different damage types if we tried!

Or we can go with KISS. I support the addition of a piercing damage type as there are examples of things being hard to cut but much easier to stab and smash all around us.
If they add any more there runs the risk of making this too complex.

[HeadWar]

Kevlar vests definitely shouldn’t offer LESS against cutting damage, even if they offer more against piercing. Trying to go through a vest like that with a slashing weapon is a losing proposition.

http://www.safeguardclothing.com/articles/difference-between-a-stab-and-bullet-proof-vest/

[Cat09]

you guys may want to pop over to the dwarf fortress site if you want to see what would really need to be done for realism in damage effects. shear strength, weapon mass, cutting edge, etc.
blunt force is really just cutting force over a larger area, and piercing is just the same thing… smaller area, focused from an edge to a small point. Armor is all about resistance to items penetrating it in one form or another (damaging it). and force dissipation.
aside from that, acid, heat, cold, and base(alkaline) are all very different potentially damaging effects (I think explosions are just very fast blunt force)

[Binky]

[quote=“Cat09, post:17, topic:5335”]you guys may want to pop over to the dwarf fortress site if you want to see what would really need to be done for realism in damage effects. shear strength, weapon mass, cutting edge, etc.
blunt force is really just cutting force over a larger area, and piercing is just the same thing… smaller area, focused from an edge to a small point. Armor is all about resistance to items penetrating it in one form or another (damaging it). and force dissipation.
aside from that, acid, heat, cold, and base(alkaline) are all very different potentially damaging effects (I think explosions are just very fast blunt force)[/quote]

Although DF’s armour and damage system is something of (buggy) beauty, I don’t think it’d be really necessary for DDA. A few different types of damage and resistance is all that’s needed for the most part - everything else is not really perceptible in game, and would certainly be confusing for a ‘stat heavy’ game like DDA (it works in DF as everything is behind the scenes mostly).

[Alpha]

Have my support,… Wait isn’t there heat damage, i’ve stood next to a burning house and landed whopping 76 pain… not sure if it harmed me as i just ran away and did a whole bunch of crack(my solution to everything)

[FunsizeNinja123]

Have my support,… Wait isn’t there heat damage, i’ve stood next to a burning house and landed whopping 76 pain… not sure if it harmed me as i just ran away and did a whole bunch of crack(my solution to everything)

There is, kind of.