Updated to latest experimental and then suddenly all clothes are marked as (filthy). I don’t have Squeemish trait so I have a question if that is a bug or all clothes off zombies are marked ad filthy and that is ok?
Apparently it’s mostly intended behavior, but quite buggy and controversial among the devs.
It’s currently being discussed on github here: https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/17254
Note that jumping into the river will not clean your filthy gear. (Damn it.)
[quote=“Solusphere, post:2, topic:12072”]Apparently it’s mostly intended behavior, but quite buggy and controversial among the devs.
It’s currently being discussed on github here: https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/17254[/quote]
Look at Coolthulu noticing that “tedium in the name of realism above all” has taken over the game. I haven’t updated in like 9 months and I don’t feel like I’m missing anything. Just a bunch of nerfs, cranes needed to put wheels on a deathmobile, fiddly ammo magazines, and mechanics for washing your clothes. Ooh exciting.
We’re going to have a system for keeping your fingernails trimmed before we ever see what’s on the other side of those portals.
[quote=“Thwap, post:4, topic:12072”][quote=“Solusphere, post:2, topic:12072”]Apparently it’s mostly intended behavior, but quite buggy and controversial among the devs.
It’s currently being discussed on github here: https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/17254[/quote]
Look at Coolthulu noticing that “tedium in the name of realism above all” has taken over the game. I haven’t updated in like 9 months and I don’t feel like I’m missing anything. Just a bunch of nerfs, cranes needed to put wheels on a deathmobile, fiddly ammo magazines, and mechanics for washing your clothes. Ooh exciting.
We’re going to have a system for keeping your fingernails trimmed before we ever see what’s on the other side of those portals.[/quote]
Yeah, I mean cranes and magazines dont bother me much, but it seems that with filthy clothes things are starting to get overdone.
yeah , as another one said in reddit , this is like #letsmakecddatediousagain
like what the fuck is this shit ? washing clothes ?
next we are going to have damn finger nail trimming or your shoes wont fit or goddamn pimple popping or npcs will treat you as ugly
fuck sakes i like cdda’s complexity but i dont want it to be real life
It would be nice if it at least got a blacklist option. Nutrition and Magazines got them and they both had less of a negative reception from players than this.
I totally think that the problem here is not the filthy tag per se. That’s actually quite cool! It’s just that, well, it’s almost impossible to clean. Like if something is dirty you just need water and a rag and that’s it. Maybe the rain itself could clean it. That’s stuff someone could come up with. But right now the ONLY way to clean it is crafting and item and loading with something really hard to find.
You know, one of the things I like cataclysm is because most of the time it makes sense (though some stuff really, really does not). Like, want to cook something? Get a fire, a stick to roast it, and that’s it. Want to fix a car? Get the parts necessary and do it. Want to open the door with the crowbar? Just use the crowbar on the door. Want to wash your clothes? Sorry, the rain won’t clean it. Either using a towel or a rag and water. Or all the cleaning products all over the place!
I don’t know if that’s simple, but hey, it’s what anyone would come up with in my opinion.
Game needs laundromat with washing machines…that need power to run…from a car with cables…and detergent to clean…and coins to activate…YEAH!
What I don’t understand is why it’s so hard to just scavenge from houses, that’s what I always did even in whales’ version of the game. Is that approach really so unusual?
I mean your options are filthy, torn clothes someone died in, or pristine, clean clothes from someone’s closet, should there really be no difference?
Is that even the problem, or is it that people just weren’t paying attention to where they were getting their clothes, and the clothes they happened to be wearing got downgraded?
The problem is the penalty itself: it doesn’t make game harder, just makes it take more keypresses.
I’m fairly certain that absolutely NOBODY is upset because the clothes they happened to be wearing when the update dropped got downgraded. People hate the feature because:
It’s redundant. You already had to perform intensive maintenance on zombie gear after picking it up, and you already often had to wait until your supplies\skill level were high enough because the things worth repairing require kevlar and will break if your tailoring skill is too low.
It’s boring. Its a chore. It doesn’t improve the game or enrich the player experience in any way. It doesn’t train any skills. It’s not a challenge that requires thought or planning to overcome. To steal coolthulu’s words it doesn’t make the game more difficult. It literally just wastes the player’s time.
The fact that it was broken for around 50 versions compounded the two problems above, along the fact that a large chunk of the community hasn’t been happy with the more recent simulationist additions (the reasons for this vary too much from person to person for me to go into here).
I’m not entirely sure what it is about the issue that you’re not understanding. Plenty of people have given the exact reasons they’re unhappy in this thread and others. Some of which you’ve even responded to (like coolthulu on github).
Also, it’s not just “you have clean clothes right there”.
I know it’s there. But I do have the option to take the filthy clothes anyway, and if the option is in the game, shouldn’t it be fleshed out at least, made it have the quality of everything else? The state of how something was made in the game shouldn’t make me choose whether to use one or another thing, but rather the game itself.
Also, good post, Draco. I agree on almost everything.
Edit: grammar.
i dont really mind the filthy mechanic its just that you have to live next to a river or take a 6 map tile journey just to wash your clothes just because you cant wash them using actual physical water in containers like bottles and jugs , would be best if it used about 5 portions of water because 2 is a bottle of water and i am pretty sure 2 or 3 of those would allow you to clean anything in real life
SideNote : Can you put that bleach to use ?
Since I started the post, I have a feelling I need to add my 5 cents here.
I like the idea. I mean, what the hell, killing zombie kids drops you morale. Trying to make a zombie slave is devastating to your morale. Why wearing blood and gore stained clothes shouldn’t add more to that? It should, zombies are something utterly disgusting to any healthy mind of normal human being. Penalty is just about right IMO.
By the way, I would go even further and implement penalties to your morale everytime you butcher zombie or human corpse. I mean COME ON, are you really sane doing all that stuff? People end up butchering every body around there to a) skill survival up b) get rid of reanimation of corpses. We need to give them penalties for that. It is realistic and it fits the overall concept.
The only problem I have with filthyness is source of water and bleach being useless in the process. Bleach is pretty common in houses, why dont we make like 2 unit of bleach to clean small stuff like socks or gloves; 5 to clean a shirt or a hat; 7 for pants; 10 for jacket and like 15 for peacoats or winter stuff?
Yeah, the bleach is agressive substance, let it damage stuff a bit - I’m okay with that. But it’s better than trying to find a pond or river as the ONLY option out there. Also using water from bottles seem logical because you can use like a pot with water and soap to do initial cleaning and then another pot of water to rinse that. This is how I hand-wash my stuff when I need to (yeah, I do it sometimes). My stuff is not blood-stained of course. But let’s at least make it possible with reasonable amount of water nearby (24 units toilet has should be enough, it’s like 6 liters. More than enough to clean one small to medium item).
its the future, wheres the atomic cleaning pens ;p
Say goodbye to Dirty Stains and limescale!
Yeah, I said that. I do however regret using soundbites over actual arguments (which nobody here in the threat starts to do (guys, do look up slippery slope fallacy, nice rhetorical trick, but not really an argument (mea culpa))). Cranes and magazines are not that big a problem. (Magazines spawn all over the place, aka most guns still have them, and the implementation of reloading works well. Cranes could use some work in explaining the game mechanics (the boom crane for example). It just pushes the creation of deathmobiles to a bit later in the game).
@Kevin, saying you did something a certain way in the whales version isn’t that good an argument, the game has changed in a lot of ways since then. There are a lot starts that don’t even start near cities. Cities have become a lot harder nowadays, with all the new special zombie types. And a lot of old combat tricks (throwing, starting a fire) have been greatly reduced in effectiveness. Being grabbed for example introduces a lot more risk to the early game scavenging. (Be grabbed once, lose 2-3 turns breaking away. More Z’s near you. Grabbed over and over, special Z comes near. DYWYPI?).
And while this is no problem, (if surviving the apocalypse was easy everybody would do it) there should be some challenge. You shouldn’t point to old versions and base your arguments on that.
And more ontopic, as I said before on github. I think soap cleaning should also give a morale bonus. To offset the penalty. (which could even be sneakily implemented. Aka, remove filthy tag, reduce base morale by some value (to offset the upcoming bonus), and add the clean tag that you get on fresh clothing and clothing that you cleaned. Cleaned gives a morale boost). This way we create the new system in a more positive way.
Playing x5151 and I like the filth mechanic.
The water requirement isn’t too high, a big barrel and a rain catcher will do it.
Heck, a few jugs of toilet water will work, it seems around 50 units is all you needs and cleaning doesn’t use up the water. (Ew.)
Bleach is a disinfectant, not a cleaning agent.
And you really only need tiny amounts of bleach to water ratio to clean things.
If you wanted to clean things you could use baking soda and bleach.