Effect ideas: Bruises, strains, over-exertion, cuts, concussions, etc

[voskhod]

This should be very simple to implement code-wise, as it would be nothing more than adding a few entries into the effects.json that get applied whenever you get a particularly nasty hit (similar to how bites from zombies can sometimes apply the “infected” effect to a limb)

Recently, in another thread, I contemplated the current health and first aid system.

Really, the idea of healing in Cata is kinda overblown, at least in my opinion. This is kind of the reason why I always take the traits Flimsy and Slow Healer. When I get myself smashed half to death by a zombie brute, I shouldn't be able to just sleep on it and be fine the next morning. I really, really hate Fallout 3 style healing like this. At least with SlowHealer+Fragile/Flimsy, it takes me several days to fully heal the damage done, like it more realistically would. Getting mauled almost to death should at the very least put a character out of commission for a couple days, maybe even a week or more, while they stay in a safe place to heal up and recover. I mean, shit, when I have a nasty fall or pull a muscle, I can feel it for a week or more! It doesn't just go away after a single night's rest. Getting damaged should be something you try to actively avoid, not just a minor nuisance that can go away by going to sleep or just using a bandage. All in all, damage means nothing because healing just happens too fast / is too readily available, and I really, really hope this gets changed some time soon.

Now, while I was thinking of what could be done to fix some of these problems, I came across an idea: What about effects that are meant to simulate injuries that don’t just go away after a bit of rest or a first aid kit?
What if, for instance, if your head gets hit for more than a certain amount of bashing damage, you get the “Concussion” effect; -4 intelligence, -4 dexterity, -2 perception, -25% melee roll? Such a thing would probably last between a few hours and a day or two. Why not add other effects of this nature? Getting hit with enough bashing damage to a body part could add a “Bruised” effect on that body part, that adds a constant amount of pain and maybe a minor (-1) penalty to dexterity? A nasty bruise would probably last for a couple days, as long as a common cold or flu. It would obviously stack too, since you can have multiple bruises to simulate varying degrees of how badly you’ve been fucked up. Or, what of over-exertion, when the player has depleted their stamina bar too much for too long? -3 strength, penalty to stamina recovery, constant pain and muscle aches, duration increases the more you exert yourself, etc. Currently depleting your stamina only causes you to run/walk slower and also gain the winded effect (but which only lasts for like one single turn so its basically nonexistent)

There are many, many different effects that can be added that go along these lines. Hairline fractures, injuring your knees/feet from a fall and making it difficult to walk, cuts and scrapes, dislocating a shoulder, breaking a rib, the list goes on and on. The point is that, currently speaking, the only things that matter are hit-points and pain, which are both very vague and nebulous - along with suffering from the problems I detailed in the quote above.

[kevin.granade]

My long-term plan for injury handling is to completely replace HP with a system that tracks individual wounds, from mild scratches and bruises to broken bones and large cuts, to concussions and eventually fatal injuries.

The basic progression would be that a healthy, unwounded person would have a rather large change to dodge or deflect most ordinary attacks (we’re talking random zombies flailing at you here, brutes and gunfire are another matter entirely). However this would take a toll by depleting stamina and by accumulation of minor wounds, which would cause pain and slow you down more. Once you’re impaired a bit, those attacks aren’t so easy to shrug off or dodge, and you start taking direct hits, causing more serious injuries. Obviously it goes downhill pretty fast at that point, so you’d best get away to treat those wounds.

At the same time, many of those wounds would need treatment, both to manage the pain they cause and to prevent infections. First aid would no longer heal wounds, but instead ‘treat’ them, putting them in a state where rapid healing can occur and you can usually get by with some treated wounds, which is good because I’m thinking they’d take a while to heal based on their severity and your overall health.

[voskhod]

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:2, topic:10260”]My long-term plan for injury handling is to completely replace HP with a system that tracks individual wounds, from mild scratches and bruises to broken bones and large cuts, to concussions and eventually fatal injuries.

The basic progression would be that a healthy, unwounded person would have a rather large change to dodge or deflect most ordinary attacks (we’re talking random zombies flailing at you here, brutes and gunfire are another matter entirely). However this would take a toll by depleting stamina and by accumulation of minor wounds, which would cause pain and slow you down more. Once you’re impaired a bit, those attacks aren’t so easy to shrug off or dodge, and you start taking direct hits, causing more serious injuries. Obviously it goes downhill pretty fast at that point, so you’d best get away to treat those wounds.

At the same time, many of those wounds would need treatment, both to manage the pain they cause and to prevent infections. First aid would no longer heal wounds, but instead ‘treat’ them, putting them in a state where rapid healing can occur and you can usually get by with some treated wounds, which is good because I’m thinking they’d take a while to heal based on their severity and your overall health.[/quote]

Can this be expected by the next release version? And, if not, should we implement an impromptu version of what you have planned as detailed in the OP?

Also, do you plan on adding permanent injuries? Ie, severed tendons, limb amputation (from frostbite or infections), pierced lungs, having an eye (or both) poked out or irreparably damaged causing permanent blindness, scars, destroyed muscle tissue, damaged spinal cord or severed nerves, etc? Injuries that will likely be permanent, or require some serious going about to treat (experimental, regenerative mutagens maybe?)

I imagine bigger enemies like jabberwock and zombie hulks can quite literally rip off limbs - permanently maim the character with only a few hits.

This is starting to get a little Dwarfy, isn’t it?

[Malkeus]

[quote=“voskhod, post:3, topic:10260”]Can this be expected by the next release version? And, if not, should we implement an impromptu version of what you have planned as detailed in the OP?

Also, do you plan on adding permanent injuries? Ie, severed tendons, limb amputation (from frostbite or infections), pierced lungs, having an eye (or both) poked out or irreparably damaged causing permanent blindness, scars, destroyed muscle tissue, damaged spinal cord or severed nerves, etc? Injuries that will likely be permanent, or require some serious going about to treat (experimental, regenerative mutagens maybe?)

I imagine bigger enemies like jabberwock and zombie hulks can quite literally rip off limbs - permanently maim the character with only a few hits.

This is starting to get a little Dwarfy, isn’t it?[/quote]

Finally, a use for the dissector. With suitable modifications of course. I can just see downing some oxycodone before subjecting yourself to a reprogrammed dissector to repair that severed tendon in your leg thats been slowing you down. Grabbers and zombie children would be extra scary if they could literally bite you in the ankles and cut an achilles tendon. Super dwarfy though…I’ve done this to entire villages in DF.

[cdru]

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:2, topic:10260”]My long-term plan for injury handling is to completely replace HP with a system that tracks individual wounds, from mild scratches and bruises to broken bones and large cuts, to concussions and eventually fatal injuries.

The basic progression would be that a healthy, unwounded person would have a rather large change to dodge or deflect most ordinary attacks (we’re talking random zombies flailing at you here, brutes and gunfire are another matter entirely). However this would take a toll by depleting stamina and by accumulation of minor wounds, which would cause pain and slow you down more. Once you’re impaired a bit, those attacks aren’t so easy to shrug off or dodge, and you start taking direct hits, causing more serious injuries. Obviously it goes downhill pretty fast at that point, so you’d best get away to treat those wounds.

At the same time, many of those wounds would need treatment, both to manage the pain they cause and to prevent infections. First aid would no longer heal wounds, but instead ‘treat’ them, putting them in a state where rapid healing can occur and you can usually get by with some treated wounds, which is good because I’m thinking they’d take a while to heal based on their severity and your overall health.[/quote]
Will it be done like liberal crime squad (characters have HP,but they can get DF-like injuries) or dwarf fortress?

[kevin.granade]

Will it be done like liberal crime squad (characters have HP,but they can get DF-like injuries) or dwarf fortress?

Neither, it’ll be done like DDA
HP will be gone, but the only resemblance to the DF system is that it will track individual wounds.
DF mostly ignores pain and minor injury until it gets to the point where limbs start flying off in an arc, and it likewise lets you keep going until long past a real person would be dead of shock and blood loss.

[Agoelia]

Permanent injuries (which I’m sure will be awesome) should NEARLY always be non-completely permanent. And I really mean ‘‘nearly’’.
spoilers Damage to spinal cord and similar should be curable by that special computer in hospitals; destroyed muscular tissue would be replaceable by medical ampoules, and basically everything else should be done with nano repair bots in your blood, which should be both really slow (not instantaneous, like now, they should need at least 2-3 days, in which your hunger is doubled since you need more matter to create flesh), and A LOT more expensive energy-wise. Like, 2-3000 energy.
Don’t know about missing eyes or limbs or entire (vital) organs. It would be annoying as hell having to leave an end-game character because he is now unplayable since missing both eyes, or both arms. I never played Halo, but have read some of the books. In one of them, there is a portable kit for cloning organs compatible with the person’s DNA and blood. I’m pretty sure it could be used for eyes and limbs alike. but that’s in 2500-ish, not 2030-ish. Maybe it’s too futuristic. More simply, we could have CBMs made before the cataclysm for people born blind or who lost limbs in accident (cyborg eye(s) and cyborg arms). There are already some prototypes right now in the real world, so it is legit to presume they will be widely used in the future. They should be fairly uncommon since very expensive, but you can always expect to find at least one or two in every ospital. At this point, you should also add damage to CBMs. But that’s a whole another story

[The_Zombie_Eater]

Bumping this because I like this suggestion. An Unreal World/Dwarf Fortress-style health system would fit this type of game much, much better. Also, a little more realism, eg. a bottle of disinfectant should only disinfect a wound, not heal it.

Also more body parts would be nice. Would give the game incredible depth. Here are some suggestions for them:

Keep the existing main body parts, just add some more (eyes and mouth already exist for head).

Head: Eyes, mouth, ears, nose, chin, cheeks, jaw, forehead, skull, neck, throat.
Body: Chest, stomach, ribs, lower back, upper back, spine.
Arms: Shoulder, upper arm, forearm, elbow, wrist.
Hands: Inner hand, outer hand, can go into individual fingers DF-style if you really want to.
Legs: Shin, calf, knee, thigh, buttock, hip, groin.
Feet: Ankle, outer foot, sole, toe.

Can also add organs inside the body. Yep, I really like Dwarf Fortress that much.

Lastly, different body parts affect your overall status differently when they are hit. A cut to the wrist and throat would more likely lead to bleeding, a blunt attack to the knee can cause you to fall down, etc. Don’t be so squeamish. It’s a horror game.

[Agoelia]

I have a very strong feeling. And this feeling is that once this feature is completed and implemented, the game is gonna get a hella more hard.

[cdru]

I have a very strong feeling. And this feeling is that once this feature is completed and implemented, the game is gonna get a hella more hard.

And fists will be almost useless.I would like it if there were options to disable realistic wounds.

[vultures]

This is, the way I perceive, the counter-intuitive of the “Threat” thing, overall. You don’t round-up the percentage of the kill count (or just eye the imminent danger around the player) but silently count the ounces of blood left in player, before his roguelike death.

Words can’t explain how much I’ll enjoy this; especially after the encounters’ rebalance, considering rather new in-game structures and sites.